Controversial? Don't think parents should work/volunteer in their dcs' class...

[Nerf]

Have often thought this in passing, mainly due to my dm teaching me as a child and her being super strict.
Now mine are all at school this has come up a lot:

X's mum is a TA in ds' class. X and ds don't get on but my ds says anytime he 'tells on x' the mum takes her child's side.

Me being told about the the dinner ladies and what they have to do for my son at lunch. By a dinner lady at a social event unrelated to school and in hearing of others.

Me being told chattily about my son and his lunch habits.

Dinner ladies unable (seemingly) to be fair when their children are involved in incidents.

One helper taking my dd to one side as she came out of school to tell her off for her meanness to her dd. Has done this to other children.

They are just examples i know rather than guessing. But I think volunteering/ working is fine, just not in the same class or playground as your child....

I think most Mners will agree with you.
I know I would help out much less often if banned from helping in my DC class.

When I worked as a dinner lady it was understood we didn't get involved in any of their difficult moments.

So X's mum works in the same class as her DS? That seems odd.

I think those 2 examples are about lack of professionalism, not the same as helpers in class.

Would you believe that I know married teachers who are both teaching their own DC right now? I raised eyebrows at that.

I've volunteered for the past 2 years and always requested NOT to be in my dc's classes for precisely the reasons you give.

So I'm in the year group inbetween and have a lovely time with a bunch of children who I don't know as the dc's friends.

Interesting - ljkkk - is that because you want to help your child? Or just be near them? Why your child's class specifically?

Yes, bad, every trip I've suggested being in a different group from my dc.

Ours is a relatively small village school (one class per year). Three of the teachers, four of the TAs and a couple of lunchtime supervisors are also parents of children at the school. It would be a timetabling nightmare to never have any of them working in their own child's class. It would also reduce the number of volunteer parent helpers, as most people do prefer to help in their own child's class.

Of course they should all be professional though - I've not personally heard about any situations like the ones you describe.

It's bad practice and wouldn't be allowed at our school, mainly because some ultra competitive saddos just want the opportunity to compare their kid's progress with the rest of the class.

OP, I prefer to help in my own DC's classes because I like to think that I am (indirectly) helping my own DC (by freeing up the teacher's time, rather than helping some random children. Sorry if that's selfish! I don't expect to be given my DC to help specifically (and in fact I never am).

Wasn't a criticism, just interested.

Why my child specifically: because I want to spend a little time with them & see what they are learning. I also like to observe if how well they behave & if they have good social relationships. And it's utterly fantastic for seeing how they are taught (say math or English) so then it's easier to help my child & bridge the gap between what their teacher explained and how I would think. Also what TT said, it's directly helping my child even if I don't work directly with them, by helping the class I help with their entire learning environment. & I'm forging a good relationship with their teacher.

When my child talks about their friends I have a chance to put faces to names (mine mostly don't go to parties).

Yes I can also observe who the clever cogs & cheeky monkeys are. Along with some sad or upsetting cases. :( But they aren't half so interesting as my own child & his personal experience.

I listened to readers one term & realised DS was about middle ability; I wondered if we gave it a push if he could improve a bit; I made some extra efforts & his reading ability jumped up. That was about helping him. Maybe the others all jumped up in ability too I don't know, but I'm glad that I was motivated to make extra effort.

The big negative is sometimes DC have behaved worse because I was there.

This is a problem of data protection not parents working in their own childs class.
you need to tell the HT that your child is being discussed in front of others or even outside school, they shouldn't be doing this whoever they are.
If a TA is approached and asked about progress/ problems and they aren't in school, they are duty bound to ask you to make an appointment with the teacher or pop into school sometime.

Our school is larger than average and have a strict rule that you cannot work or volunteer with your child's year group

Dinner staff is slightly different but they do try to keep separate

Lljkk - the bit about your dc playing up when you are there is exactly why I said I wouldn't go in my dc's class.

That and I have 4dc so would end up going into 4 classes as each would complain that I didn't help in their class ...

I don't necessarily think there is a right or wrong on this. So much myst depend on the child, parent, teaching staff and the class itself!

lljkk I can see why you feel you gain from helping in your DC class, particularly with regard to the education side of things but I cannot imagine that it's easy on your DC to have you there overseeing their efforts in class and playground as well as at home. I've volunteered at schools other than where my DD attends and I did so as my DD would be mortified to have me in her class watching her all the time. I didn't feel it was fair on her to have me 'cramp her style' as such. Do you not feel that it might be a bit easier in your DC if you weren't in their class?

I appreciate we are coming at this from different POVs so please don't take my comments as criticism - I'm just curious as to how you think your DC feels having you do involved in their class.

Crikey so many typos! Apologies.

Gosh lljkk. I think half your post would be agood argument for you NOT to be in your sons class.

I helped out in ds2's class, but was very careful not to treat him or my best friend's son any differently to the other children I worked with - I spent some time doing behind-the-scenes jobs, and some working with a small group.

I also worked in ds3's class, but I was doing reading with individual children, and ds3 wasn't one of them.

Both times I was careful not to overstep the bounds - I didn't try to find out inside info about the dses or about any other children, nor did I try to get the ear of the teachers about things that were important to me.

I did take up the offer to stay on at the end of the afternoon to sit at the back of assembly (they had it at the end of the day, not the start - can't remember why now) - and I was glad I did, as I saw ds2 coming in from his class, and was horrified to see a pale, sad, almost cowed child - totally different to the child who came out of school each day, so a complete surprise - and I was able to ask him why he had looked so unhappy, and found out about the bullying he hadn't told me about.

That meant I could deal with it - I suppose this could be seen as taking unfair advantage of being in school to help,out, but I will not apologise or feel bad for it. It was not deliberate, just serendipity.

Lljkk

Sorry but why should you be privy to that further information about your child that other parents don't have.

I volunteer in schools but not with the children - so I give up my time but you are telling me the mum who goes into read can access all this information? Very unfair...

And even worse that you say you would remove your offer of support if you couldn't be in your child's class?

Thank goodness my sons school have a policy preventing parents from helping in their child's class.

I agree OP, I think volunteers should not be in their children's year.

Wow, Beatrice, which things I said do you think are so very bad?

DC love me coming to class; they'd like me to be their teacher, often ask for that.

If I'm helping properly I don't spend much time at all interacting with DC or observing them at all. I'm there to help everybody & it's extremely & entirely engrossing just working with the kids right in front of me. It's very satisfying if you think you've helped somebody to learn something new or to enjoy learning. Whoever they are. Couldn't do it regularly, though.

Trying to think why wouldn't I insist on volunteering with any other class... um, because the teacher's style might not be how my child is taught, and the material covered nothing to do with what my child is learning, so no insight there. I don't know the teacher as well and I'm more of an unknown quantity for him/her so it's more awkward to work together, at least initially. The kids are harder to engage with because I don't have any chance to have any knowledge or relationship with them out of school; at the end of the day I am NOT a professional or a regular face.

And it's not directly improving my child's learning environment.

"Why should you be privy to that further information about your child that other parents don't have."

Nothing to stop them volunteering as well. And they do, plenty do!

I didn't mean for this to end up critical of each other, sorry!
Very interested that some schools actively have a policy against.

Being critical of each other is exactly why it's so hard to solicit minority opinions on MN. :(
I said I'm in a minority. I probably wouldn't bother to say anything on this thread if I were in majority. Having a majority view is easy peasy. Having a minority view makes you shut up.

I do volunteer - I am a governor - I can not volunteer in my sons school as my son has challenging behaviour and ASD so he would not cope with me in his other setting from home.

And furthermore I volunteer my skills and support without dictating what I must gain from it in order to carry on volunteering.

DD3's school has a policy that they don't allow parents to help in their own child's year group. I did do just that for about 6 weeks, just because the teacher and I had been talking and she asked me to volunteer, but it was allowed because DD2 would be moving up a year soon and I only helped with admin (book covering, etc., in preparation for the next year). This year the HT was not happy that I helped in the class because my nephew was there. The teacher was adamant that I helped and I just made sure that I didn't do too much near my nephew.

I don't think it's helpful to have a parent helping to get the inside track on their child's school life, tbh.

This is not about minority views lljk

I am not in any majority - I volunteer to the education system outside of my sons school, he has SEN, a statement, he's been failed and bullied by ADULTS and children in schools, I have had parents vilify my child on the playground...

I hope to god I am a minority voice.

What I know is that most of these issues stem from people in school with the wrong attitude - be the governors, head, teachers, parent helpers, cleaners, TAs or whoever - they are the rot of education when they are allowed to continue.
Refusing to volunteer unless your child gains over others, being allowed to access information other parents can not access is a bad attitude - both yours and the school that allows it.