OFSTED idea to fine parents not supporting homework

[PastSellByDate]

MN friends

recently read article from Mr. Wilshaw (OFTSED HEAD) suggesting parents who don't support homework should be fined: www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jun/17/schools-fine-parents-ofsted-michael-wilshaw

As you know I am a big fan of homework/ practice of core skills.

I have posted many a time about how I do extra work with my DDs at home because homework at our school/ even sending guided reading books home is a very intermittent thing & the school maths curriculum/ homework is rather a disappointing chaotic affair.

Technically KS2 Upper (Years 5/6) have 2.5 hrs of homework across a week. In practice 2 hours of it is entirely unmonitored reading - and the school no longer sends guided reading books home and the library visits have been literally once a half-term (& because of computer check-out system issues - usually books are not loaned out). The remaining 30 minutes is split between an English task (draw a new cover/ write a blurb for a book/ describe your favourite character/ write a letter to a character - kind of work) and photocopied maths worksheets - usually out of Heinemann maths workbooks. DD1 usually finishes these last two tasks on a Saturday morning before her swim lesson in 10 - 20 minutes.

Here on MN I have recommended websites that through trial and error I've stumbled across and found useful. I've recommended on-line tutorials for maths.

I have asked for help when recently assigned the task of 'You need to work more with your DD1 on the author's use of language' and when I said o.k. could you clarify what you mean exactly; the teachers were unable to define what that meant or give me any suggestions (ever so professional - don't you feel?).

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So my question to OFSTED - is are you going to slam schools that don't meet parents halfway.

Because I was that parent that found extra resources, put in 2-3 hours a week supporting reading/ writing/ maths with a struggling DD1 for 3 years to 'catch her up' with her peers. And without a lick of help from the school.

I am that parent that is saying hey school - shouldn't you be teaching long multiplication/ division to all of Year 5/6?

You came to our school and rated it good on the basis of a school with newly purchased moodle VLE/ My Maths/ Bug Club and all sorts of extra activities/ field trips/ clubs laid on in the run up to your well signalled visit and you haven't even noticed (nor the LEA and this is a state maintained primary) that since you've moved on - all of this has been dropped one by one - and now the school's official policy is that homework is of no benefit in primary school - and thanks to Gove guidance on how much homework should be set (which was by time/ not content) has been entirely removed.

ARE YOU GOING TO BE EQUALLY FIRM WITH SCHOOLS WHO FAIL TO SUPPORT LEARNING IN SCHOOL/ AT HOME?

DO YOU EVEN EXAMINE HOW LONG THESE IMPRESSIVE SYSTEMS (DEFINITELY PURCHASED TO IMPRESS YOU NOT US PARENTS) HAVE BEEN IN USE AND HOW EFFECTIVELY THEY ARE IN USE - i.e. don't just see the one person who has been trained to use Moodle, but check if it is actively being used across all years?

Or is it just about slamming State Maintained schools to force them to join the academy band wagon?

Tbh I don't see the point in much of the homework set in primary. Dd in y6 reads because she likes to read rather than it being a homework requirement and she completes homework tasks which are few and generally consolidate on what has been taught because she will always follow the rules rather than because I insist or that school would issue consequences.
In secondary I tend to think it should be the children who do the homework for their own sake rather than because a parent has policed it because I think learning to work for your own sake, sense of enjoyment or a desire to expand on what you know is a useful skill.
FWIW ds2 did no homework throughout secondary choosing instead to enjoy daily detentions which was like an extended social club in his school as the being kept behind was considered a punishment they didn't have to do the missed homework. He is currently part way through a masters funded by his workplace and so the lack of homework didn't seem to harm his chances tbh.

He he he

After completely alienating teachers, Gove sets out to aggravate parents too!

insanity:

I totally get the point your making - but you're presuming that all schools issue homework. DD1 (now Y6) has had school years with literally only 4 pieces of maths homework and a reading diary we're meant to fill in but is never checked/ commented on. We also tend to have to provide our own books.

I did check with the school - there policy is no books home because so many have gone missing. The school library is not lending because of staffing issues (volunteer parent runs library but often cancels at short notice) or computer check-out system issues (usually crashed or crashes once started).

So it's lovely that your DD reads for pleasure - and indeed my DDs do too now - but DD1 was a struggling reader and we found we had to seriously work through that phase (she didn't want to read because she found it difficult/ upsetting because it was difficult) to reach a phase where she now reads regularly before going to bed.

However insanity - the vast majority of her cohort of 30 pupils do not read regularly or only read one type of thing: Horrid Henry, Diary of Wimpy Kid, Horrible Histories, magazines - and then only occasionally.

In KS2 upper guided reading books are chosen by the a member of the table (a student) and there is tremendous peer pressure to always chose a 'short book'. They then sit at the table and read to themselves. This means DD1 is constantly finishing well before her peers at the table (because there is definitely no read 20 pages or read chapter 4 - if you haven't finished take it home and finish it). There is no discussion of what they're reading. There are never comprehension exercises related to what their reading. Indeed comprehension exercises at the school are only based on extracts - not having read whole chapters or books. (? teaching to test skills).

In general homeworks were few, erratic, undifferentiated and usually based on photocopying workbooks: KS2 SATs busters/ Letts comprehension/ Heinemann maths. This cohort now have a very poor attitude toward regularly taking home work related to what they're doing in school. Most pupils opt to just leave it in their drawer and tell their parents they had none.

Insanity - I get that for your DS not doing homework in secondary was his personal choice (and see that you're supporting him in that) but is this positive story (my son didn't do a lick of work and now he's in a good job and pursuing a masters?) true of everybody in his detention group?

I seriously doubt it.

The reality is that putting in 1 hour an evening on homework in secondary makes huge differences to progress. (e.g. educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/toolkit/homework-secondary/

Academic achievement makes huge differences to opportunities (although I take the point that other forms of achievement sport/ art/ dance/ music - may well lead there too! However, I'd put it to you that all the practice for those things is basically the equivalent of putting time in homework in academic subjects).

Finally - doing homework, developing that routine in primary (especially KS2 Upper - Years 5/6) does build that good habit of using homework to consolidate what was learned in class and extend skills/ learning beyond that and/or prepare for class (i.e. inverse lessons where pupils go off and find out about a subject first and then learn more about it in class).

No obviously not all children who choose not to do homework can cruise through a Masters but then I think ds chose not to do homework because it didn't challenge him so seemed somewhat pointless. He's yet to break sweat on his Masters course either for that matter so obviously he's a bit of a boffin.
Of course homework if it's relevant and worthwhile is a positive but having had four through secondary already I'd say that much of what is set is to tick the boxes of having issued homework rather than having any real merit or value and the majority hasn't been marked either.
I would have been delighted if dd's primary school didn't issue homework as my older children's schools never did. Because it's issued dd tends to complete it even though there wouldn't be a consequence if she didn't. I think in primary sharing books and practising times tables are probably the only necessary homework anyway.
Dd starts secondary in September I can't say I relish the prospect of homework although expect dd will complete it because she is pretty conscientious. For me though I would prefer that school work was kept in school giving children the chance to enjoy family time and pursue their own interests out of it.
The day the school day lengthens to fit in compulsory enrichment activities is the day I withdraw dd from the system completely tbh because there is far more to life and learning than spending the majority of her waking hours in an institution.

PastSellByDate, I agree with so much of what you say. Your experience is very similar to my own. I also agree that academic achievement is a good thing for those who are capable, and I recognise, that while many people may succeed in life none the less, academic success is highly correlated to adult success.

One difference between us is that our CofE school is considered good/outstanding, and is heavily oversubscribed! Standards just aren't that high.

I've come to the conclusion that the less homework the better. It leaves time for us to work on the things that my husband and I think are important to the children's education. We've quit wasting time and energy trying to engage the school. We need that time and energy to help fill in the gaps for the kids.

Finally, the books available at school are sparse and often not very good. There is no "library" really. So we use our local library. It's small, but we can order any book in the county library system to it for free. So, problem solved.

I get and respect insanity that you value your family time.

I value having dinner with my kids and reading to them but I also respect that they're incredibly happy playing with friends at after school clubs/ sports clubs and/or going to dance lessons/ youth orchestra.

I see these as forms of 'homework' but in areas of arts/ dance, sport or music.

Most of these opportunities happen before/ after school - so in effect my children have an extended school day.

I doubt helping me do some housework, a bit of gardening, cooking, etc... (which they do do frequently) more often in the week is more 'enhancing' than these other opportunities.

I value my time with my kids - but I also respect that time with friends of a similar age is important and time to devote to interests and practice activities they enjoy (sport/ dance/ music/ art) is also of value.

I think that routine of a busy school/ working week and then a quieter weekend where you do spend time with your children isn't an unpleasant life rhythm. Yes, in the week, most of our time together as a family is whilst we're sleeping - but it doesn't mean our family life isn't rich, loving and fulfilled.

I think homework is a territory where conflict can errupt and where parents can have difficult - but at primary age - reading with your child (homework) is also a lovely time together as parent/ child. Helping my child work out to subtract one digit from two digits with borrowing was like pulling eye teeth - but I wouldn't have missed the day it 'clicked' and suddenly she got it.

Homework needn't be divisive.

Homework can be used to improve understanding/ skills.

Homework can be enhancing - opportunities to learn about new places/ new ideas/ improve understanding

I don't think homework is necessarily a waste of time - even poorly thought out homework. I have spent a lot of time/ thought on resources for my kids in the absence of anything coming home with them from school - not because I'm gung ho on homework - but because I could see DD1 was hugely behind her peers from nursery (literally struggling to play snakes and ladders - having to count up - whilst her friends could simply add their roll of 1-6 in their heads - this was late Y2).

Perhaps I am wrong to blame just homework - but our solution (Mathsfactor - doing 5 20-30 minute maths practices - brief video explaining skill/ brief warm up game/ quiz/ 20-30 sums to solve) 5 x a week has made a huge difference to DD1 - not just in terms of doing better at maths - but learning that perseverance and practice reaps its own rewards.

I would be delighted to embrace the fining of parents who do not read to their children, who do not support homework...

...if we can also fine OFSTED Heads who are failing to support schools and teachers, whose organisation is increasingly distrusted and despised by educationalists and parents alike, and who has twice had to climb down from embarrassing public squabbles with the Education secretary.

What is the point of homework anyway?

It's not to introduce a new concept - as this is the job of the teacher.
It isn't to learn - as this is done at point of explanation or activities done during the school lesson.

So it must be to consolidate? If this is the case, then why is homework not just revision?

Mine always refused to do homework as they didn't see the point and there was no time in between play and extra curricular activities, they enjoyed.

I don't see the value in much of the pointless homework that is churned out really. My dc never needed to practise what they had been taught, they were bored stiff doing it more than once during the school day. The teachers knew they didn't need the practise but had to issue it anyway and then had to collect it in and mark it. To my mind it would have made more sense to concentrate the efforts in school on those who needed it.

Can I just add that because I don't see the value of homework and have never coached or tutored my dc it hasn't meant that they have lived in an educational void. They have followed their own interests, they learnt for themselves what they wanted to know. Most of them could read before they set foot in school, dd has never had a reading scheme book in her life but will be top stream in secondary from their own testing and got 100% in their spelling test even though we haven't practised spellings routinely at home. Obviously by OFSTED's reckoning I should have been repeatedly fined even though my dc get the results wanted regardless.

I don't agree with homework especially at primary level.I remember it being on the news that research shows it does more harm than good in the long term

I think he's lost the plot and was looking at sucky up points off Gove.

Both can fuck off to the far side of fuck and fuck off some more!

And mine aren't in school yet!

I'm happy with this proposal as long as parents can also fine schools who fail to support their child's learning. I would quite happily issue a fine to the school that employed a weak NQT that left half way through the year. Can I fine the teacher who has only listened to my DD read twice this year? Does. Mr. Wilshaw really needs to think more about how he could use his position to help schools instead of tying them up in knots with paperwork and ridiculous targets.

"I would quite happily issue a fine to the school that employed a weak NQT that left half way through the year."

What?

Fine them because a teacher got a different job???

Do explain how that might work, exactly, go on.

"I would quite happily issue a fine to the school that employed a weak NQT that left half way through the year."

It may well be that the NQT failed his or her probation year. So you would want to fine a school for sacking an incompetant teacher? I feel its unreasonable to expect a head to have a crystal ball.

I fail to see what fines would achieve.

So, that "weak" teacher might have had personal problems that you know nothing about, which led to her premature resignation. You think a school should be fined for that?

Or, maybe the school "managed" a move mid-year, before any more damage occurred. Are you saying they should be fined for that?

Or maybe the teacher wasn't "weak" particularly, but left due to the appalling behaviour of some of the children in the class?

You can attempt to blame and punish the parents, as Wilshaw is suggesting....

You can attempt to blame the schools and teachers and punish them, as this, from shebird 'schools who fail to support their child's learning.' suggests...

You can attempt to blame the Government and the regulatory bodies as many on this thread have suggested.

You can even attempt to blame the children, as clam suggests with her comment, 'appalling behaviour of some of the children in the class?', which IMO is the cruelest place to apportion blame.

Or you can seriously question why our State Education system is unsatisfactory to so many and what our expectations of educational attainment should be. IMO the people within the Education system need to accept joint responsibility for the formal education in this country and let parents, parent.

We have a State Education system in order to provide an education to children whose parents cannot easily or adequately provide this education 'under their own steam' and/or privately. It is supposed to reduce inequality between those who can educate privately, 'under their own steam' and those who cannot. Requiring parents to prop up the State education system just re-fosters the inequality all over again.

that should be people being paid to work^ within the Education system need to accept joint responsibility.

Bravo capsicum. You nailed it.

Thanks. Toomany.

First off I think fining is ludicrous.

Currently parents our fined if children are absent without excuse during term. Suddenly, the proportion of ill children (just before/ after weekends) has shot through the roof. Basically children at our school are learning how to skive.

Also it will inevitably end up with a you say I'm not reading with my kid and I say I am.

Given DD1 could barely sound out words until Y2 - but we were regularly reading with her - I think this is dangerous territory - as technically she wasn't making an improvement and this proposed system presumes all is well in school so therefore it must be the parents fault - fine the parent for not reading with their kid.

Maybe its me but if parents should be supporting learning than schools really do need to do better than instruct parents to read with their children.

Schools need to be guiding parents through:

non-reader - read with your child but maybe use a finger to show your child what words you are reading

key word/ minimal phonetic skills - let your child read the words they can and attempt to sound out at least one sentence on their own.

building phonetic skills: - let your child try and sound out words themselves, let them have several runs at putting the sounds together and try to avoid correcting them too quickly.

Building strengths: let your child read an entire sentence each page by themselves.

to let them read an entire paragraph

to let them read an entire page

Building vocabulary: encourage your child to point out words they don't understand and to guess their meaning in the passage or if uncertain look them up in a dictionary/ on-line.

Building comprehension skills: Discuss what has happened in the story. Characters you like/ dislike. Cliff hangers and what might happen next. Interesting use of words/ tricks from the author - e.g. Lemony Snicket always advising the reader not to read further if they are at all squeamish.

Again if OFSTED want a system of penalities to parents not supporting homework then it seems only fair that homework (including supporting reading) is well thought out, parents are informed better about how to support that reading/ calculation methods and homeworks are part of the lesson planning process (differentiated, having objectives - low ability - to consolidate subtraction to two digits without carrying/ middle ability - to consolidate subtraction to two digits with a few problems involving carrying (having set out an example)/ upper ability - to subtract to two digits with carrying and then go on to 3 digits.)

I get the point you are making insanity - that in an ideal world this all could be done in the one hour lesson. But the reality for DD1 is that her class takes a while to settle down, there frequently are disruptions, members of her class leave for music lessons/ one to one support, etc... so getting all 30 pupils to settle down to reading or maths and just focus on that task is relatively rare. Homework just ensures that the concept is secure before moving on to something more complicated.

I think if OFSTED want to help children rather than fining parents they need to return to this 'minefield' of assigning homework and really generate useful guidance because as you can see here on Mumsnet we have everything from build a model of Taj Mahal for school tomorrow - to nothing and everything in between. I think parents need DofE/ OFSTED to set out what makes for good homework/ whether homework should be differentiated/ whether schools should make it clearer to parents what the objective of the homework is and how they should support it. Finally, I think parents need to understand from schools when you want us to leave it entirely to our children and when you expect us to be helping out a bit.

Past I understand what you mean it being beneficial for parents to know exactly how to support. However to consider this carefully you have to consider the variance in parental learning needs. Some may have learning disabilities themselves which would mean accessing this type of support, which teaches them in turn how to support their child educationally. So the support for the parents would have to be differentiated.

For me, personally, 'professional' advise was problematic, having studied English and Education myself at degree level, since I had read a lot of the original research, and knew the limitations, whereas the people advising me clearly had not. I had to make an effort sometimes to remain tactful, occasionally I felt polite questioning was more supportive than blind agreement. Less homework was good for my DC because it meant I had more time to support appropriately for the particular individual learning needs. And there has been a huge positive progression.

I will say a very (very) small amount was good just to encourage the discipline and routine studying requires.

Ultimately the schools should not be relying on parents to deliver a substantial chunk of the NC (this seems to occur mainly with teaching reading) because schools need to teach the children not their parents how to teach their children

^ when I refer to some of the 'professionals' not having read the research I refer to our individual different specialisms and biases.

^ Typo. That should read,

Some may have learning disabilities themselves which would mean accessing this type of support, which teaches them in turn how to support their child educationally, is more difficult. (referring to the parents)