OFSTED idea to fine parents not supporting homework

[PastSellByDate]

MN friends

recently read article from Mr. Wilshaw (OFTSED HEAD) suggesting parents who don't support homework should be fined: www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jun/17/schools-fine-parents-ofsted-michael-wilshaw

As you know I am a big fan of homework/ practice of core skills.

I have posted many a time about how I do extra work with my DDs at home because homework at our school/ even sending guided reading books home is a very intermittent thing & the school maths curriculum/ homework is rather a disappointing chaotic affair.

Technically KS2 Upper (Years 5/6) have 2.5 hrs of homework across a week. In practice 2 hours of it is entirely unmonitored reading - and the school no longer sends guided reading books home and the library visits have been literally once a half-term (& because of computer check-out system issues - usually books are not loaned out). The remaining 30 minutes is split between an English task (draw a new cover/ write a blurb for a book/ describe your favourite character/ write a letter to a character - kind of work) and photocopied maths worksheets - usually out of Heinemann maths workbooks. DD1 usually finishes these last two tasks on a Saturday morning before her swim lesson in 10 - 20 minutes.

Here on MN I have recommended websites that through trial and error I've stumbled across and found useful. I've recommended on-line tutorials for maths.

I have asked for help when recently assigned the task of 'You need to work more with your DD1 on the author's use of language' and when I said o.k. could you clarify what you mean exactly; the teachers were unable to define what that meant or give me any suggestions (ever so professional - don't you feel?).

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So my question to OFSTED - is are you going to slam schools that don't meet parents halfway.

Because I was that parent that found extra resources, put in 2-3 hours a week supporting reading/ writing/ maths with a struggling DD1 for 3 years to 'catch her up' with her peers. And without a lick of help from the school.

I am that parent that is saying hey school - shouldn't you be teaching long multiplication/ division to all of Year 5/6?

You came to our school and rated it good on the basis of a school with newly purchased moodle VLE/ My Maths/ Bug Club and all sorts of extra activities/ field trips/ clubs laid on in the run up to your well signalled visit and you haven't even noticed (nor the LEA and this is a state maintained primary) that since you've moved on - all of this has been dropped one by one - and now the school's official policy is that homework is of no benefit in primary school - and thanks to Gove guidance on how much homework should be set (which was by time/ not content) has been entirely removed.

ARE YOU GOING TO BE EQUALLY FIRM WITH SCHOOLS WHO FAIL TO SUPPORT LEARNING IN SCHOOL/ AT HOME?

DO YOU EVEN EXAMINE HOW LONG THESE IMPRESSIVE SYSTEMS (DEFINITELY PURCHASED TO IMPRESS YOU NOT US PARENTS) HAVE BEEN IN USE AND HOW EFFECTIVELY THEY ARE IN USE - i.e. don't just see the one person who has been trained to use Moodle, but check if it is actively being used across all years?

Or is it just about slamming State Maintained schools to force them to join the academy band wagon?

The thing is telling people they should be volunteering in schools does not really solve the problems of our State education system.

Why is it that so much support is required to hold up a system that is supposed to provide education for our children?

"Why is it that so much support is required to hold up a system that is supposed to provide education for our children?"

When I was at school 30 years ago parents often volunteered to hear reading. I realise that more parents have to work, but schools make no effort to recruit volunteers. Listening to children read has become over professionalised. Surely it does not take a Higher level teaching assistant qualification to listen to a chid read? Does matter if parents aren't experts on phonics.

It takes a village to raise a child. In the past lots of parents volunteered to hear children read once a week. This meant that children got to practice their reading during school time regularly.

My daughter is in reception and has only read once to a teacher or TA in the entire academic year. She does do group reading, but I feel group reading is less affective than one to one reading.

OK Really Tired. Understand now.

I agree an OFSTED INADEQUATE judgement would be devastating - but in this case may be just what the doctor ordered.

They aren't teaching multiplication (if you feel it is important you have to as a parent).

They aren't teaching inverse multiplication.

Forget long mutliplication/ division

Year after Year we have trainee teachers come in the summer term (often taking over Year 6 whilst the teacher prepares end of year reports/ hand over reports/ finalises SATs marking/ recording) and year after year they're horrified to learn that most in a class are struggling with basic multiplication/ division skills.

As a trainee you're in a very difficult position really - you need that reference don't you.

We've also seen NQTs come in all fired up ready to do great things - and then realise that most of what they've planned is too ambitious for much of the class.

Differentiating from NC L3 - L6 must be a nightmare - I do sympathise - but genuinely not intervening with those struggling, indicating to their parents that their child is not where they should be and putting into place schemes to catch that child back is the problem.

It's been going on for years Really Tired - it does need to stop.

PastSellByDate

It does sound like your school needs special measures. What are the SAT results like? What is the OFSTED dashboard like for your school?

Are you able to become a parent govenor.

Really I understand your point however this does not solve the inequality present when in areas where large numbers of children's parents have to work or have poor literacy skills themselves.

The thing is I see schools becoming more and more 'de-skilled' in what they can adequately provide without support from volunteers.

You say in the past lots of parents volunteered to hear children read? Well at my primary (in the 70s) they didn't. We did not have half as much homework either.

Schools should be equipped to teach without relying on volunteers to provide what they should be providing.

SATs have been 71% and below (as low as 62%) for last few years.

The school used to as standard get 90% of pupils to NC L4 or better prior to DD1 (now Y6) joining school.

OFSTED don't seem to be particularly concerned about that - and school seem to expend a great deal of effort documenting that children are getting expected progress.

Notably last year's 71% to NC L4 - only included 1 of the 13 FSM in cohort of 30 pupils. 59% of pupils attained NC L5 or better - none were FSM and I suspect if you looked into it - all of these pupils went for the 11+.

So in a way back round to this OFSTED campaign - in this case parental support be it private tutors/ lots of workbook study at home for 11+ does seem to garner good results.

And that leads me back to wondering about a school who's official policy is homework is of no use in primary school and why OFSTED aren't pursuing them.

PAst The thing is if there is too much emphasis on homework and parental support everything gets a bit topsy-turvy, with more leisure and fun activities taking place at school and the more formal learning being done at home. For example design a game and make it at home play it at school, maths games at school learning times tables at home. I'd rather a school actually focused on teaching well than setting lots of homework, monitored and critically analyzing parental support and recruiting volunteers.

Why is it we expect our children to be formally educated from dawn until dusk? They should be educated at school leaving weekends and evenings more free to relax and pursue their interests.

It does rile me rather to find DC have had a whole afternoon of treaty fun activities at school (although I am pleased they all enjoyed themselves) only for them to take home a stack of homework when they are worn out and ratty.....

waves to Past.

I'm not sure what I feel about homework. We both work, we make time for piano practice and reading each night but I can't imagine how we would fit much else in. On the weekend yes, but I want homework to be fun and creative. That is mainly because that is what my dd would enjoy. I think she would quite like having a sheet of homework to do. I think I would be in favour of homework if it had a list of things children could choose from to do, and so they could choose something which appealed to them.

However, I'm totally with you on the schools getting their houses in order before people start fining parents. Our school was rated as good last year. But where is the parent communication? Where is the parental engagement with anything other than making money for them?

My DD gets library books - but she has a box that are marked 'reception', and so they are all picture books. She isn't allowed to choose any others. My DD just isn't that into picture books. She prefers that we read her chapter books. But she isn't allowed those. So she chooses her library book, it stays at home for a few days, and then it goes back, unread! She doesn't like to miss out on the choosing process . She gets given two reading books a week. She isn't allowed more. We've spent lots of money on more reading books. I decided to join Reading Chest for the summer, and she can't wait for her books to arrive from them. I would happily give the money to the school if they would buy more books for every child to be able to use, and would then let children who want them have more, and children who don't, have those that they want.

I want teachers to be given more freedom in their teaching - more respect for what they do and what they know. I also want them to give more respect to parents. But I don't think the most important part of education is learning, I think it is thinking. If teachers are barely allowed to think for themselves in what they teach, it is hard to see how they are facilitated in teaching children to think for themselves.

Because relying on homework and parent volunteers really does create inequality. Some parents are not in a position to provide lots of support / tutors at home. Surely State education should provide more equality, not increase inequality.

I support my child in all aspects of learning but in certain areas there is only so far I can help ....due to my own shit schooling.

capsium Do rough schools make any attempt to recruit volunteers outside the families who attend the school? Often middle class afluent areas are close to areas of povety. They could advertise on

www.do-it.org.uk/

website. The school I used to work had had loads of volunteers, but here are hardly any at dd's school because the school doesn't ask for help.

I also think its the height of snobbery to believe that low income families can do nothing to help their schools.

really No where did I suggest that low income families cannot help their schools. What I am questioning is why they should be expected to. Many parents have to work, those that do not work may not for a very valid reason, they might have health problems or be carers for example.

Do rough schools make any attempt to recruit volunteers outside the families who attend the school? Often middle class afluent areas are close to areas of povety

Now who is being a 'snob'?

Capsium:

I actually wouldn't mind wrap around education. In Birmingham where most parents work and rush hour traffic is a nightmare (mainly because of school commuters) - many Mums end up going part time to accommodate the school day.

Now it was my choice to have kids - so there it is - that's what's needed and I'm doing it.

However, if the school day allowed parents to drop off at 8 a.m. and collect up to 6 p.m. - and included activities like dance, music lessons, cubs/ brownies, art, drama, sport, story time, forest school, relaxed library time, cooking, crafts, etc... no I don't think a wrap around day would be a harm to my child. Indeed - in amongst there schools could lay on science clubs/ maths clubs/ g&t clubs/ close the gap clubs/ etc... Many of the teacher's are part-time so they could work 8 - 1 or 1 - 6.

In essence my kids are already doing this with before school/ after school child care/ clubs.

And I also know that many kids just go home and veg in front of the tv filling up on processed foods whilst they're at it.

I don't know where you're based Capsium and what your personal situation might be - but I think most kids in Birmingham don't really get that chance to run free in a park or field. Either their parents takes them or they go as part of a group. In our case - after school club is allowing my child to do what I did as a child - run free in a large grassy area, chase butterflies or go over to playing fields near the local church. She plays with friends of all ages and they climb trees, build forts and play endless games of 'tig' or football. When the weather is bad or its winter - they're inside making things (Christmas ornaments, Father's Day Cards, play mobile models, domino runs, etc...) or playing with toys.

Long school days need not be a hard slog on your kid. They can open up all sorts of opportunities and exciting adventures.

capsium

How do you suggest closing the gap between working class white children and everyone else? This article shows that its a persistant problem.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-27886925

If parents in these areas are too busy for whatever reason then why not attempt to recruit further afield? Its not snobbery it about finding people with the time to help.

State schools are supposed to provide and education and as a result reduce inequality between those whose parents can afford/are able to educate privately under their own 'steam' and those who cannot.

If the parents end up providing what the State is supposed to provide you will be left with same inequality, those children whose parents can support them, educationally, do better.

I think its ridiculous and children should be allowed to play/ do extra curricular activities out of school time.
I don't and never have supported homework for the sake of it.
I think its important to help with anything your child may be struggling with, getting to grips with a particular concept etc, but believe that school is their education and separate from home.
Another stupid suggestion, rather than looking at how they can train teachers to cope with all school work at school.

If parents in these areas are too busy for whatever reason then why not attempt to recruit further afield? Its not snobbery it about finding people with the time to help.

I would put less energy into recruiting volunteers and more energy into teaching. When there are too many staff / volunteers in a classroom IME the teacher ends up managing the staff/ volunteers, delegating and planning rather than gaining a more rounded, hands on, knowledge of all the children - which IMO is more beneficial.

PastSellBY My DC had a Statement of SEN for some years. After school clubs and wrap around care would have been problematic at that time, they are not all that inclusive. Whether they are beneficial are not really depends on a child's individual needs.

capsium

Have you ever stepped foot in an early years learning classroom? I think you would find that teachers already have a managerial role. My daughter's reception class has 2 full time TAs. When she was in nursery there were 3 full time TAs and a teacher because there were two statemented chidlren.

It is not like how were were at school. There is no way that a teacher could teach my daughter's class without help. There is a little boy with fragile X and a little boy with cerabral palsy who both need substantial extra help. Ten years ago both these boys would have been in special school. Even if teachers had a class of ten I doult that they would cope as it requires an adult to physically restrain a special needs child safely.

The problem with children reading at school is that it takes them out of the lesson. They miss learning while they read to a TA/ parent. I am not sure how practical it is to lengthen the day with a complusory homework club. Even if the cost issue could be overcome there is still the issue of tireness. Young children need to practice reading when fresh.

Ok Capsium - I can understand why you might personally feel a long school day is ill-suited to your child's night - but I would imagine that it is possible to have flexibility in the system (core 9 - 3:30) academic day which would suit you - and for others opting in (one presumes for a fee) to a wrap around 8 - 6 p.m. day

In effect this already exists in many places with after school clubs/ sport clubs/ etc...

I hope your objection to long days with clubs wasn't because this doesn't suit me so you shouldn't do it - but more along the lines of you could see that for some children it wouldn't work.

To be honest I doubt the government(s) will actually ever roll out a wrap around school day. It will be catered for privately through before/ after school clubs.

In an ideal world I'd like to think a disabled or SN child could also participate in such clubs - but I take your point that they can be left out/ excluded in such situations.

ReallyTired

capsium

Have you ever stepped foot in an early years learning classroom? I think you would find that teachers already have a managerial role. My daughter's reception class has 2 full time TAs. When she was in nursery there were 3 full time TAs and a teacher because there were two statemented chidlren.

Oh yes. I did my Degree in English and Educational Studies and specialised in KS1. Currently I am a SAHP.

ReallyTired I made my comment regarding teachers being more hands-on from my own experience of several of my DC's teachers not really getting to know my DC's abilities very well at all. They always had to defer to the TA the funding from the Statement provided. This was problematic because the TAs are not necessarily trained as teachers and in some instances subject knowledge was lacking.When there was enough progression, and 1 to 1 was no longer provided, I noticed much improvement because IMO the teacher had a better grasp of what my DC understood.

Really

I think you raise a good point about tiredness and trying to do work with young children.

Prior to going part-time I'd get home at 7 p.m. at the earliest, usually 8. Doing reading with my girls that late was often hard work and they usually weren't in the mood.

I was off at 6:30 a.m. for my train - so mornings were no better.

This was workable with before/ after school clubs but they were clear they weren't a homework club and in many ways at age 4 - 6 I had no problem with that (as in the US most kids don't start school until the year they turn 6).

But when it was clear how badly DD1 was struggling things had to change. Doing more at weekends wasn't working and DH's job situation just wasn't that flexible.

I still think OFSTED need to think through this statement of fining parents. This is only viable if schools deliver reliable, high quality homework - and from my little corner of the English primary system - I'm pretty clear not all schools do.

At present the government seems big on presenting a 'sense of Britishness' in schools - well then the system should encompass a sense of 'fair play'. It's isn't cricket if you punish one side (the parents) but not the other (the schools) regarding homework.

Many schools already have parent/ pupil/ teacher agreements - indeed St. Mediocre's is rather a hoot. Very clear what parents HAVE TO do and notably the language is much more wholly for the teachers who ENDEAVOR/ TRY/ ATTEMPT with our children but seem to struggle to HAVE TO DO anything much.

I still think OFSTED need to think through this statement of fining parents. This is only viable if schools deliver reliable, high quality homework - and from my little corner of the English primary system - I'm pretty clear not all schools do.

At present the government seems big on presenting a 'sense of Britishness' in schools - well then the system should encompass a sense of 'fair play'. It's isn't cricket if you punish one side (the parents) but not the other (the schools) regarding homework.

Many schools already have parent/ pupil/ teacher agreements - indeed St. Mediocre's is rather a hoot. Very clear what parents HAVE TO do and notably the language is much more wholly for the teachers who ENDEAVOR/ TRY/ ATTEMPT with our children but seem to struggle to HAVE TO DO anything much.

I share your views here, Past.