Really?? Very clever September-born and no school for another 1.5 years

[Lawnmumma]

My son aged 3 years and 7 months has been identified as extremely bright by nursery teachers and all who know him. He turns 4 in September and so just misses the cut-off to start school this year. I am gutted for him that his friends will all be moving on, and also that he cannot start school despite clearly being ready. He is mature for his age - socially confident and very articulate - and happily learning at nursery to read and write - but will effectively be waiting another year and a half before starting reception. Some of his academic year peers are barely talking, still in nappies etc and it is absurd when we have 'play dates' with them. I've met with the head at the local primary who said that all they can do is differentiate class work - but that with 32 in a class this isn't always the reality even with teaching assistants around. Does anyone have any ideas what I can do to help my boy? I've gone round the local private school but the fees rule this out. I've canvassed friends and family who suggested writing to our local politician but I'm skeptical of this resulting in anything useful. Ultimately of course my son's happiness is the most important thing. I do think this requires being stimulated by his contemporaries and surroundings, though, and gainfully occupied (being taught letters/phonics after having been reading for a year and a half???)... It is hard to write this post without coming across as a precocious parent. My parents were too self-absorbed to ever think about my education so when I landed at Cambridge University I had the raw talent but was seriously 'underpolished' and could have had a smoother ride had I been stretched appropriately previously (and of course, not been advised incorrectly by my sixth form college that Discrete Mathematics was an appropriate module when in fact Statistics was required. But that's another story). I want to prevent history repeating itself. Thanks, in hope, for reading - from a novice poster.

My DD just missed the cut-off for school (by a week! If she'd arrived on her due date she would have got in!) - and I'm in Scotland, so that meant she'd be 5.5 when she started p1.

Nursery encouraged me to try to apply to get her into school early, as like your DS she was bright and confident and everyone felt she'd outgrown nursery. I tried, and failed, and was very upset. You can apply for an early placement here (not sure about other parts of the UK?), but school was very opposed.
So...she's in P3 now and I am SO GLAD she's one of the oldest. She would have coped fine with the work, and behaving in class, and socialising with her classmates, but school is much more than that. It's the playground, the pecking order, the big kids, the lunch hall...
I was wrong to try to push her into school early, and I'm very, very glad that the decision was made for me. I'm very glad she'll be a year older going to high school, and a year older doing her exams, and all that stuff.

The year before your DS starts school will probably be challenging (our year was!), but it's only a year - and a year he won't even really remember.

My ds is a sept born baby and was the eldest in his year at primary, he was and still is very articulate with a wide vocabulary (I think this stems from the fact I never stop talking to him, lol). His friends all went to school the year before him, he missed them terribly. However, that year went over very quickly, he was at an excellent preschool which had lots of excellent facilities; like a vegetable garden and musical instruments etc.

He's at secondary school now and doing well, particularly at languages.

...back from discussing how pesto is made and why long hand on the 6 means half past... I'm truly heartened by the range of responses received here and it's great to feel less alone in this. Even the critical responses have helped me think it will pan out ok in the end. Sincerely thanks. What a sensible system it would appear to be in Scotland, empowering parents and offering choice. Apologies if my choice of word relating to my son's frustration when attempting more sophisticated interactive play with younger or less verbally communicative children caused offence. We all want what is best for our kids and it's just the case that he prefers - at nursery, and in our social circle - to interact with children that are slightly older. He is nothing but kind and generous with his baby sister (except when she demolishes an intricate Lego structure or configuration of trains!). Not really sure how to sign off here other than to say thank goodness we are all different...

Same as Bilbery. I deferred my January born DS so he started school at 5.5. Best decision I ever made.

I was worried about him being bored and all the other children in his year moving on, but he was absolutely fine and I'm so glad he got another year of just playing.

Great post northern lurker.

I think you are wrong to think school is the answer, unless you are lucky to have a school with very small class sizes. DS1 was ahead and bored rigid throughout primary, he could easily have started primary and secondary a year early and still been ahead. Apart from 2 exceptional teachers at primary who managed to differentiate for all the children and push him, he was rarely challenged. It's hard to do that when you have 30 children. They do all have to do phonics because at end year 1 they have to do phonics test. School is very prescribed.
What I do know is you can probably do more at home to stimulate him than school will manage. Most reception classes are just like nursery with child centred learning through play so I wouldn't expect any great academic learning to happen until year 1 or 2. A good way off. Then much of it is deadly dull. DS used to whizz through the work and then read his book. I always found my kids made more progress on holiday when they were with us at that age than in term time.
DS is now 12 and goes to an indep secondary school with a bursary and scholarship and is no longer bored (or top of the class, probably because he coasted through the previous 7 years and got lazy!) I wish primary school had been a less boring experience for him but I think for many bright children it is boring. He still made great friends despite being far ahead academically.
I would spend time instead on hobbies etc. Maybe join a home ed group and just send him to nursery part time and go to museums and trips etc, or a forest school. That way could meet children of different ages? He really only needs one friend on his wavelength at that age and they make their own games up.
Even though primary was boring I disagree with accelerating children. It's common in USA where my nephew lives and he doesn't have great friendships as he's 18 months younger than many of his classmates. I don't think he will be that happy when his voice hasn't broken until 18 months after his classmates, or when he's 16 and trying to get a date and all the girls in his class are 18 and won't look at him. I truly hope his parents don't send him off to uni at 16 or 17. It's all very well wanting to rush ahead now but he may not thank you for it when he's 16 and feeling left out. Being the youngest in the class isn't much fun when everyone else is out clubbing and you are too much of a baby face to get in.
I honestly remember the year before my boys started school as a golden year. Bright children rail against the rigidity of school and miss the freedom to do their own thing. Just enjoy it while you can, my children regarded primary school as a prison, not a pleasure! Something to be put off as long as possible in my view, you will miss him when he's gone. Not to mention you get another year without extortionate holiday prices.

My 2 year-old could have explained about the long hand on the six for you. He still wears nappies though, so presumably he's too immature to be of interest. Maybe don't write off the new intake of children as potentially interesting friends though.

What northern lurker said! Seriously my july born premmie could not read write or anything starting reception, she is now top of her year 2 class. Most will catch up and overtake... settle yourself, maybe have a change of nursery and enjoy this last year where you can keep him home for a couple of days with no consequences!!

I do think a change might be good. My (November born) DS was in a similar situation - his self-selected peer group at nursery were all older than him, so they all left to go to school when he was nearly 4, and whatever anyone says he did feel like he was going to be "left behind" . Fortunately it co-incided with us moving, and we decided to put him into the nursery class of a pre-prep rather than into another standalone nursery. They did take funding, though (although I was working full time so he was there for more than his funded hours), and after 2 weeks the school suggested moving him into reception.

I am not suggesting this as an approach, as it has only worked for us because we were able to afford to keep him in the school where he has remained with the slightly older year group but has the flexibility to move.

What I do think you should seriously consider, as PP have suggested, is learning an instrument. For very bright children it gives them a focus and the means to be constantly learning something without covering ground that will leave them coasting/bored when they get to school. It may take some effort to find the right teacher, and obviously wouldn't be cheap, but cheaper than school fees.

If you can find a school nursery that is on the same site as the main school, then they often send any really able nursery children up to Reception for specific phonics/maths input as needed. They also have access to a main school library for reading books etc, so if a child is ahead, it is easy to accommodate them.

Brilliant post northernlurker. At our state school primary there are about 80 in nursery and a massive range of ages, interests, types of kids (sporty, quiet etc). My mid year 4 year old is thriving. Those who are ready are doing phonics etc the rest are left alone until ready. All learning is play based. I am glad my very bright Oct born 2.5 year old will also get as long as possible to learn by play.

I really think you need to stop thinking about this issue in relation to his long-term educational success. Thinking about his performance at uni is - to my mind - ridiculous... and slightly worrying tbh. And just because he's ahead of his peers now, doesn't mean he will remain that way. Children develop a different times and that's all fine.

My partner, who is a 'clever' bean started school at 7 - which is typical of Scandinavian countries, and couldn't read until that age either. He went on to attain two excellent degrees whilst studying in a foreign country. Also, I was generally ahead of my peers at school and never had to work much - and yes, I consequently found uni a bit of a shock - but I muddled through and got a PhD anyway. It all works out... Three or four years old is way too early to worry about this sort of thing.

You are more than welcome to join the campaign group I belong to. We campaign for flexibility in admission start dates at school for summer born children. Meaning that they do not have to go to school at 4 years and couple of weeks. My DS will pay the price for the rest of his life for having to start school too early. It sounds as if flexibility would work well in your case but in reverse. The rigidity of the current school admissions system only benefits administrators.

My DS is a September baby and started in reception this year. He is pretty bright - he is currently working at a top year 2 level in maths and works with the year 1s for literacy. But more importantly he is loving school. He loved his year in nursery (attached to the school) before he started. They made sure he was stretched academically, fitting in maths questions into the everyday life of nursery for example, when they thought he was ready teaching him phonics, but helped him to fit in socially too. It really hasn't been a problem either in his nursery year or in reception that he is one of the oldest. There are things that his younger class mates are better at, and things that he is better at. That is life.

DS - December born - was an exceptionally bright pre-schooler. Mental addition and subtraction of 3 digit numbers and negative numbers, fluent reader etc etc.

Pre-school was the best thing that ever happened to him.

School - or at least his first school - was the worst.

Honestly, educate him by all means, but don't send him to school. I ended up remving DS from school to HE for a while to 'mend' what school did to him, and ever since then my focus has been on:

• Is he happy?
• Does he have friends?
• Is he intellectually curious?
• Does he have a really broad range of opportunities?

This is definitely a problem if you are both older in the year and advanced.
DS1 (Nov birthday) could read a full year before he was eligible to start school. Nursery said they had never had a child who could read before and made their disapproval clear, they also told me schools wouldn't like it that he could read. The main issue for him is that he is clearly "different" to other children in his year group: when the other year R children were practising counting to 10 or 20 he wanted to discuss infinity and negative numbers with me "Mummy if infinity + 1 is still infinity, what's infinity -1??"
DS2 is similarly bright but April birthday and is finding reception a whole lot easier as he is floating along comfortably at the top without being bizarrely different to the other children.
Personally I genuinely believe DS1 would have found life a bit easier if he had gone to school a year earlier. He had all the social, physical and self care skills to have been able to manage it. Flexibility would have been a good thing for him

My exceptionally bright December born early reader who could tell the time from an analogue clock before 4 was also in nappies until he was 7.

He's now a bright 10yo. Still at the top end of his class, particularly in maths.

And has just secured a place at a special school. He has ASD and ADHD.

OP, please don't judge other kids by what they can or can't do, as it's not all cut and dried at such a young age.

I know where the Op is coming from in her comparison to the younger ones.
With dd1 and dd2 they were both old end of the year. So some children started school with them, that I thought as being complete babies-I remembered them being born when dd2 was walking around for example.
With ds, he's a young one, and there were children who were much too old to be in the same year as him! He was such a baby compared to them it wasn't fair to have them in the same year surely?

But what I will say (ds is my youngest and in year 2 now) is that it's made very little difference in the long run. The dc whose mum was telling everyone nursery had said was so advanced-was overtaken by about 1/3 the class before the end of reception, for example.
In dd1's class the top groups were almost entirely made up of summer babies by year 1, some of whom I was in reception to find they were the same school year as she was.

My summer baby wasn't ready for a lot of aspects of school. Would I have held him back if I could have? Probably. Would it have been a good thing in the long run? I suspect not. He's top couple in his form in reading and maths (can't stand writing though!)-last night he settled down with his year 8 sister to do her algebra-she's top set too. So if I'd kept him back, I think reception and possibly year 1 would have been easier, but I think now he'd be frustrated and bored.

With dd1, she read Harry Potter in year 1 (after finishing Famous Five). Was she bored by the reading at school? Yes at times, particularly group reading. Has it held her back, or put her off reading? Not at all-but reading the easier books made her stop and delve more deeply into the books-it gave her a greater insight into what books can imply rather than directly say.

From what you say your ds is doing well, but there's more than a chance that there will be other children up there with him-possibly some of those summer born ones, reading, writing and doing a few sums before they start school is not unusual now that nurseries try and teach them. Go and discuss with the school what they would plan on doing with a child who can do that, and I think you'll find they are used to it.

I had a 3 year old who was considered very bright at nursery and was way ahead of her peers, by the time she has reached senior school she is in middle set, she really struggles with the work and struggled with her sats. They projected 5 and 6's. She really struggled with the sats work especially in maths. She attended evening and weekend classes at the school as well as a load of sats based homework with work books she had to complete every night which i am convinced helped her. She got a 4 in maths and a 5 in everything else. Some of the kids at nursery done much better in their sats than her. I also have a daughter with some mild learning difficulties but enough for the school to bring in outside help in the KS2. She was never considered bright, she really struggled with English although she was ok with Maths. Once the school brought in outside help, identified her problems and worked with her a year later she has more or less caught up with English and is doing much better with maths than DD1 was. DD3 is a July baby and is fine, she is on the same level as the older children, very confident and eager to learn. She went to more of a play based pre-school instead of nursery.

OP's DS sounds very like my DS, except my DS is late summer born. Despite my DS' age he is way ahead academically compared to the rest of his reception year of 60 children, except for one early September born boy who is fairly close behind.

In academic terms we are glad that DS is young for his year and think that it works well but physically, he seems much younger, which is noticeable to him in PE class and in the playground. So if we'd had the chance to defer like in Scotland I'm not actually sure what we would have done.

If he is particularly academically clever, he will be miles ahead even if he were to start a year early.

My son skipped year one (normal local English Primary school 13 years ago, and unheard of even then).

It caused no problems or issues for him until he couldn't go to a pub with his classmates when he was a sixth former (and he thought he could have been on the rugby A team if in his proper year).

However, he was still fed up and bored often because schools get pretty tiresome and boring (especially when preparing for exams, which is most of the time).

Never let your schooling interfere with your education.

I'm not convinced this is genuine - hoping for the 3 year old that it is not.

Can't add anything else to the superb post by NorthernLurker other than to implore you to enjoy your son before he is sucked into the school regime.

What about keeping him in the nursery for playing but home ed him on his 2 days off??? that way he gets to relax at play group but still be stimulated, then when he does attend primary school, find one which mingles age groups in classes, that way if he's too ahead for his peers then he can be moved up a year but stay in the same class.

Lawnmumma:

With a DD1 in Y6 and soon off to secondary and DD2 in Y4, can I sincerely say that school isn't just about how bright you are but is also a social experience.

You strike me as someone who's got some very clear ideas on how you want your child to progress but I'm slightly surprised at your desire to rush through these early years - they truly are precious. There will come a point when your DC just wants to read to themselves, doesn't want you to give them a kiss or a hug in the school grounds and kind of drops off kissing you goodnight. It's all natural of course, they're growing up and that's a good thing, but it is bittersweet. (I'm at this twilight stage with DD1 - who every now and then forgets and gives me a lovely hug in the playground before trotting off to class, but they're getting rarer).

My genuine advice is let your DC have another year at nursery where he builds his social skills and confidence prior to starting school.

Being the youngest in a new setting is always tricky - regardless of how bright you are. Being slightly older in the year group has its advantages - and as you clearly have a maths background you must surely be persuaded by the statistics that show that autumn born children consistently achieve better results academically over summer born children. www.nfer.ac.uk/publications/33309/33309.pdf - and don't just stop at the first summary of a study (Fogleman & Gorbach result that length of schooling explains differences in achievement). The overwhelming consensus seems to be that there is an advantage to being slightly older (?more mature) in a cohort. (see also www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/182664/DFE-RR017.pdf).

Now in terms of your second worry - once your DC is at primary will they adequately support him. I think you have to be highly aware of your rights and prepared to politic for those rights to be recognised. I don't advise going to battle, but do be prepared to wage a campaign - possibly quite a long one.

Many schools are resistant to register a child G&T. There is a G&T feed here on MN education and I suspect you probably should start visiting once your DC starts primary school. As far as I can work out registering a child for G&T academically means the school must adequately provide for that. This is a good starting point (although somewhat out of date perhaps): dera.ioe.ac.uk/2515/1/982_primary_provision.pdf

I think my suggestion would be to be prepared to support your DCs interests yourself should the school not be willing/ able to do so themselves. One solution you do have if your child is far ahead of his peers is to request that the school allow your child to dip into lessons in a higher year group - possibly joining maths/ reading with a higher year group. Some schools combine year groups anyway and teach at ability/ other schools combine children from different forms of the same year group and then stream for ability - regardless what you should be pressing for is work that is adequately differentiated to meet your child's abilities.

However - do accept that the school has all sorts of priorities and is rarely rewarded for helping high achievers. The natural pressure is to focus on those failing to achieve their targets or close to exceeding their targets - because this benefits the school in terms of how their performance is assessed. So in dealing with the school and requesting support for your G&T child, remember that in terms of priorities for the school, although I'm certain in an ideal world they'd love to do more, this will naturally be less important/ crucial to them in terms of the criteria they are assessed by.

HTH

Enjoyingmycoffee you might find this offers some comfort www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/09/youngest-kid-smartest-kid.html

PastSellByDate - oh how I wished that school did support and that they have to provide for any registered g&t child. There's no obligation even to have a g&t register these days.

And as for providing support, what you'll find over on the g&t topic is that some children have amazing support at state schools. But you'll also discover quite a few parents who have moved their children once, or more -and a not insignificant number who've ended up at a fee paying school.