Prep School vs State Primary School -How to decide?

[SquealyB]

We are in the very fortunate to be in a position to send our DD to prep. school when the time comes but I am not sure whether we want to.

It is really important to us that DD gets the best possible education (stating the obvious) but we do not want her to become one of "those" spoilt/entitled public school types (which not all privately educated children are of course). If the local state primary is OFSTED good/outstanding would we be better saving on the fees and spending the ££ on fun extra curricular stuff, holiday etc? My family is not based in the UK and DH's family are about as much use as a chocolate tea pot - so keen to hear others thoughts or experiences.

Sometimes people put dc into great prep to ensure they get a scholoship or 11+ entry into senior school. others do it other way round, state, then private.

How can state school children as a general rule be 2 years behind?

They obviously catch up to get into university, and I certainly see no difference in the graduates I teach. Is this just a case of prepping for CE or something i.e. a different focus?

Sorry for hijack but really interested in this.

Tallulah in what ways are all those students spoiled and entitled?

Spoilt and entitled is usually a load of rubbish some people think everyone is spoilt and entitled because they dont fit their narrow acceptable criteria to be down to earth and what they think is normal

Personally, if we had a very good state primary then our DC would be going there. We don't, so they are in a private school.

I suggest you go and view both and make your decision from there.

If you have plenty of money to pay for private, without it causing major sacrifices to your family, then you might choose private because of the extras it offers, not just the academics. Some private schools offer loads of sport, music, drama etc in excess of that available even in state primaries with good extra curricular provision, which aOutstanding. Some people will pay for that, because it does not involve sacrifice for them.

I know a family who have a child at a nearby Prep costing arond 12K. They say it is not good value compared to the state primary, in that it is not 12Ks worth better. But they do think it is better and say that 12K is what is costs. They can afford it and do t seem driven into poverty by it, so it's fine for them to choose to pay that huge amount, for something a bit better. Other people would need it to be a lot lot better than the state alternative to justify the12K because that money would mean bigger sacrifices.

alicelooksinthelookingglass
You've missed out 13+ as a key stage to change schools. In the private sector, the biggest transfer is at 13 from yr 8 to yr 9.

I thought that mostly applied to boys' schools. In our area, girls' preps go up to the age of 11, boys - up to 13. And even in 3-18 girls' schools there is no entry point at 13+.

Private schools teach in a more traditional way - maths and English are very different, and in my view the state school approach is more practical and more useful, and less boring. Primary schools focus a lot on creativity and independent thought, which IME is not the case at private school, where the common entrance curriculum focuses on grammar, spelling and comprehension exercises. Gove is trying to level the playing field though.

Drom common entrance is not a feature at most private schools.

It is at the ones round my way (East).

Here, London/Home counties there are tons of day schools who all take kids at 11.

And of the more trad schools, many now do take at 11 too. And have their own tests for those starting at 13.

CE is definitely being phased out, I think.

Its also dependant on child, some do far better in larger class...bigger friend pool and so on, others thrive in smaller classes, more teacher attention...

I was lost in huge primary class, my teacher didnt know me, I had no friends I thrived in smaller private classs.

I would also say, that just as not all states schools are the same, private school vary widely too.
Some privates are tiny. They call themselves cosy, but have year groups of less than 15. A friend had a daughter in one where there was one class of 12 in her daughters year group. There were 4 girls in it.....not enough for a netball team, and they just got on each others nerves, as they weren't enough girls to mix with. Some privates are very small and have lacked investment for years. Do watch out for these very small ones which might not be viable long term, or offer limited opportunities due to size.

I now teach at a prep school and the CE issue will depend on where you are planning to send your DD after prep school. If you are looking at all girls private secondary then she will probably move at 11 and the entry in from state is much easier - a little tutoring to get used to the style of paper maybe necessary but it shouldn't be horrendous.

If however you are thinking of a mixed secondary (eg Malborough, Wellington) then CE is the usual way in. Your DD would also be a bit behind in terms of French (and possibly Latin) on arrival if she hadn't been to a prep where they start with specialist French lessons from Year 3 at the latest.

I know that secondary seems miles off but it's worth thinking about! If I was in the position you are in (and you aren't in London where things get much more complicated!) I think I would go state through infants (as long as you like your local school) and put your daughter down for entry to a prep you like in Year 3. You don't need to take up the place if your daughter is thriving but the option is there.

I hope that makes sense - it's been a long day and I can barely string a sentence together!

Just to "muddy the mix", it really does depend where you choose to live.

The success of the school really does depend on the quality of its staff (and, to a lesser extent, the rooms they are in.. though it certainly helps).

If you choose to live in an area with good state schools, you'll find the private school at junior/11+ far less competitive.

I'm a "comp girl", though my brothers were boarders and grammar school kids. We all had a great education, for different reasons, but their one observation to me was they both really missed friends nearby in school holidays.

The younger years are really a tiny bit of a child's education. I am not suggesting you need a "roadmap" of 3-25 but have a think about whether your child has a fighting chance of picking up your genes/work ethic/ elderly relatives inheritance.

I am a firm believer that an education needs to give you the skills to survive what life throws at you (but give you the tools to minimise the risk of a miserable life).

The worse ones are boarding school educated. Therefore, surely their biggest influence is the school. Bear in mind, I'm talking people whose parents are seriously wealthy and top private schools. For some reason, she seems to mostly come in contact with many with v wealthy parents. Perhaps it's the uni or the subject that attracts them.

Having had children go through both sectors the advantages of a prep school for me are 3 things.

A) a more thorough grounding in the basics such as spelling, handwriting, accurate grammar, learning times tables by rote. Ok isn't good enough, if work is sloppy it has to be done again and as a result my children have a real pride in their work. The overall teaching is better, the lessons are modern and progressive combined with tradition. It's a far better grounding in my experience. I'm sure there are state schools who do similar but the good with outstanding features my older ones were at certainly didn't.

B) breadth of opportunities, even in a reasonably small but not tiny prep these are huge. My DC are doing huge amounts of sport, music, drama that they could only dream of in their state school. Again, this can all be done out of school but it adds to the overall experience.

C) Communication. This for me is key. Again, perhaps it's common in state schools but not in my experience. I have the teachers email address. If I need to contact them they respond immediately. If there is an issue there is no brushing it under the carpet. DC will come home and tell me something has happened and by the time I speak to the teacher it's dealt with, an action plan has been put in place and I am kept informed at all stages.

The school may not be teaching 3 years ahead for all children, it's non selective so there are children of all abilities but my DC are certainly ahead of the state school friends and that gap does become more evident by years 4/5/6 where even the average attainers are miles ahead of the top children at the previous state school but at pre-prep level it's less obvious and the school doesn't prepare at all for 7+.

I haven't come across any spoilt or entitled children, many of them are from extremely affluent families but they are generally absolutely delightful children.

But what do they actually do Tallulah? In what ways do they display their self entitlement?

I have a young female relative who went to private secondary until 6th form and came out of it "entitled". Apparently she always gravitated towards the rich set (did so at uni too). There was a lot of "why do we only go to France on holiday, I want to go to the US" kind of demands. She felt her own family were embarrassingly poor, though they are comfortably off, and lied to her friends at uni about her parents' jobs - elevating them to grander positions. I've heard her come out with lots of pronouncements such as "I don't like children but everyone has them so I'll just get a nanny", and "everyone has a cleaner these days". And just a presumption that she should always have whatever she wants - very materialistic. She also developed the new style posh accent that so many private school girls seem to have.

She's actually hugely self-confident, assumes that money and success will come to her easily.

Oh come on, lots of young people have silly ideas about life the universe and everything.

It's part of their job description!

When I was at university I though a revolution was just around the corner and that it would be A Jolly Good Thing ...

My nephew (state school) refused a trip to see his fave footie team because DH had booked a premier inn which is according to my nephew a 'shit hole'. More fool him. DS (public school) goes regularly and stays cheerfully in said shit hole.
Is this a reflection of moral failure on nephew's part or the dafness of youth?

It seems to me that if DC attend state school, they're allowed to be normal, but if they attend private school they're held up to some greater moral standard. The least failing is squarely levelled at their schooling.

And people are always actively looking for those failings.

Quite absurd!

If you visit the schools and like them equally, I would start out with the state school. Mine started in the local primary school and it is great that they got to meet local friends. As issue arose in relation to my son which meant that he became very unhappy (in Yr 4) and at that point I moved him. He has been so much happier since.

If you like the state school, give it a chance and see how it goes. You can always revisit your decision.

To be honest, it is only the girls to which she refers but the girls to which she refers are v self obsessed. Turning every conversation back to themselves, whether their fake tan looks ok etc. Major life dramas that always turns the attention to them, mostly complete over reactions to everyday situations that will have them in tears or relationship problems. Also talk like dromedary spoke of. A lot of sleeping around too. Lots and lots of make up, not a lot of clothing on nights out, lots of getting really really drunk and too drunk to leave house after pre-drinks. Talking rude to "mummy" on the phone because she hasn't done what she was asked to do - send money, get a new phone etc. I know people won't like this, but it is not personal. This is just her experience from the people she has come across and up until going to uni had no experience of private school kids but it has made her not want to privately educate her own - though perhaps she is just unlucky.