what are PTAs supposed to do and can the HT do this?

[sashangel]

Sorry for waffling.

I went to my first PTA meeting on Thursday night and I am very confused and not sure what they are supposed to do.

We started by discussing how much money had been raised and where the money had come from. We were given a simple break down on paper and a total in the bank. At this point the chairperson (a teacher from the school) said that the head teacher had something to say.
He told us that he had taken £3000 to "shore up the school finaces as it is getting to the end of the year and it is a struggle with all the teachers that have been off sick but he hasn't used it yet". He also advised us that he is having an Internet safety week due to some circumstances that had arisen and is going to cost £450.
During the walk home from the meeting I suddenly realised what he had said. He was telling us that he had taken £3000 to pay for cover teachers.
I have spoken to the parent who is the vice chair the next day and he said that he thought that that is what he said but knew nothing about it and is going to bring it up with the chair.

My question is...can the head do this? My understanding of what the PTA fundraise for is extra stuff such as the Internet safety week or to subsidise school trips etc not to pay for staff sickeness or to subsidise the school budget. Should he not have to formally ask and provide a reason why he needs the money?

The problem is that all of the main people of the PTA are school related (teachers, TA, school staff, governors etc) apart from the vice chair who I said earlier knew nothing about it. They seemed to defer to anything that he said. They also taked about what they had discussed/agreed in the staff meeting.

I am thinking about putting myself down as treasurer but I don't know what that entails.

Does anyone have any advice?

Absolutely no way the Head should be able to do this.
The committee of the PTA should be consulted - it is normal for the PTA to donate the funds it has raised to school, but it is ringfenced for specific things and receipts given (books for the library, petty cash for teachers to spend on extras for class)

The PTA should be registered as a charity I think.

Also, the constitution of the PTA should make it clear what funds could be spent on and who can take it, and I highly doubt it is for supply cover!

www.pta.org.uk/

This isn't right at all.

PTAs are meant to be at arms length from the school management and a HT should not be able to just take money from the PTA - there should be a totally separate banking arrangement. My understanding is that whilst the HT and some teachers may have input into the PTA, they are not 'officers' and certainly not Treasurer, Chair etc. you can check on www.pta.org.uk/running-your-pta/ for more details. There is nothing to stop a school / HT setting up an organisation that does allow them to help themselves tp cash, but it isn't a PTA. Unless the 'PTA' gets it's constitution sorted (do they have one?) I wouldn't be offering my services as an 'officer'

The PTA was set up years ago and as my daughter had just started I thought I would pop to the meeting. I don't know if they have a constitution. I am going to have to have a word with the vice and see if there is one as he is the easiest one to talk to.

ime the PTA funds are often regarded as a slush fund by teachers. When I was on the PTA the HT committed a lot of PTA money to stuff without so much as a by your leave. You need a strong committee and to make it clear what you want to do, we wanted money to go towards the "jam" and not exercise books and such.

there will be a constitution somewhere, but you might have to do some digging. GOOD LUCK!

Ours does not have teachers as chair, treasurer etc, all cheques from the bank account need two signatures and the signatories are the chair, vice chair and treasurer, none of these people are staff members. The accounts are audited (?) annually by a non-committee person (normally a book-keeper or accountant). Now way would the HT be able to commandeer the money. I would give it a wide berth TBH. Unless you can rally a few more parents to join the committee with you and set about righting it all.

I more I think about this the more troubling it sounds.
When I was a teacher the PTA gave the classes £100 a term (old term) for "jam" resources for the classroom, but every penny had to be accounted for.

I'm no longer in teaching but involved in my son's school which has a much bigger PTA which basically pays for the school's swimming pool.

Your PTA sounds like it is in serious need of proper regulation.

Most PTAs are charities with their own separate bank accounts. The way it's being run is irregular, but if your PTA is a charity, the this is veeeerrrrry dodgy.

If your PTA is properly set up as a charity, then it operates completely separate from the school. It is for the PTA to decide how they wish to spend the money. Being realistic this is usually with discussion with the head teacher and normally they would be looking to spend on things that are visible and can be attributed to money raised by the PTA.
This head teacher is vastly overstepping the mark in expecting the PTA to just had over funds and let them spend it on what is their incompetence in not controlling the school budget effectively.
The PTA and really the parent bit of the organisation has to get a grip on this and stop it happening. You should insist that the funds are spent on something tangible - I could actually see some reasons why an internet safety week could be an acceptable use of some of the money but not for shoring up of the schools accounts. If the head teacher says sorry the funds have now been spent or something of the same ilk, then I would send a letter to the Chair of Governors saying that it is totally unacceptable that the money has been taken in this way and ask the governing body to re-imburse the PTA for the funding or at least agree a better use of the money. The governing body are responsible for setting the school budget, whilst the head teacher is responsible for the day to day administration of this. It could well be that the governors do not realise where the funding is coming from and more importantly that the school is running a negative budget in reality.

We have always submitted wish lists to the PTA for extras such as gardening tools and a greenhouse and play time toys.

If you gave a charity collector £10 and then you saw him taking a fiver out for his personal use you would be livid.

As far as I am concerned the PTA should have charity status and funds used to provide enrichment to the pupils not pay for essentials like cover staff.

Schools are not allowed to use PTA funds to pay for teacher salaries. They are allowed to use them to pay for sundries such as pens, paper, stationery and art supplies etc. But they are categorically not allowed to be used for teacher salaries. Nor can a standing amount be transferred to the school as a line item in the budget.

Also, I have to say that I don't think it's a brilliant idea to have a teacher as the chairperson of the PTA unless they are a parent as well. I'm not sure why this doesn't sit well with me - I will go away and think about it and then come back.

Why are there no parents in these roles?
Have to say, it all sounds a bit dodgy.

We don't have a PTA but obviously people are fundraising. In our case the school keeps these funds separately and at the beginning of each school year gives a total of money raised and the plans how to use it. We were able to find 1/2 of the ICT suite, permanent outside sunroofs, subsidise school trips and the odd thing like gifts to the children at Christmas and Year end.

I would be livid if the head teacher uses it to cover actually school costs. If it would become public knowledge I am sure fundraising would suddenly go down a lot as the funds are to support the children with extras not to cover teacher who are sick.

This sounds really dodgy. I wouldn't have thought that parents would want funds to be used to effectively fill the holes in the school budget. If the bank account is correctly set up you would need at least 2 signatories to sign cheques so the HT wouldn't just be able to 'take'the money.

I am a former PTA Treasurer and was always really careful when paying invoices. One time the Head sent in some invoices for payment but with one for several hundred pounds in respect of something that the PTA had not agreed to fund.
I wrote a letter requesting further details and never heard any more about it . I subsequently moved away and resigned but did warn the new Treasurer to be wary of this sort of thing. I would be digging about to find out what has gone on here and be very concerned.

There were only 7 parents there and I was one of them and it was my first meeting and another is the vice chair.

Last year the PTA gave over £7000 to upgrade windows on the school computers among other other things they were given money for.

I think it is strange that the vice chairman didn't know about it. However I don't know what to do about it. As it was my first meeting I don't just want to go in and rock the boat.

I have spoken to the the vice chair and he is going to have a word with the chair and get back to me (not hard to speak with him as he is my postman). I am tempted to take up a post within the "committee" but the only one available is the treasurers position and I don't want to say yes to it until I know what it would entail as I do also have a job as well as the usual family commitments.

Apart from what they talked about on the night I know nothing about the PTA apart from they ask for money and send out a newsletter every now and again.

Do you have access to the previous minutes? They should give you all the information you need regarding decisions made about how to spend funds raised by the parents.

How long has the vice-chair been involved?

The vice chair has only been it since the last meeting which was October (?). I am not even sure who I would go to for the minutes but I am certainly going to find out. It has really annoyed me. If other parents knew that is what was happening I am pretty sure that they wouldn't be giving any more money.

contact NCPTA - what the head has done is contrary to the rules covering charities and PTAs

Littlefish - You say that schools are not allowed to fund teachers salaries. Is that the legal situation, do you know? Or just advice from organisations that support PTAs?

That was the information we received from the local authority when I was on the PTA - I don't know if that was their legal standpoint, or just guidance.

If the PTA has been set up properly, it has definite legal boundaries, with quite specific guidelines laid down. The head cannot get money out, as it must be signed off by treasurer and chair, with receipts etc.

I would ''innocently'' ask for information as to constitution, last minutes etc so that you can get involved. Some of it may be on school website.

You sound as if there are a lot of teachers on your PTA, and it sounds pretty big. Is this primary? We have about 5 total at our meetings plus more who come to help at events!