Has this school trip broke any regulations/laws?

[emma16]

I would appreciate some help here please, my 5 year old daughter went on a trip with 2 other classes from her school on Friday to a wood which I was initially concerned about as we go there ourselves on a Sunday etc for walks & have never seen any facilities there.
I raised my concerns with her teacher the week before they were due to go, to which she hardly knew anything of the trip & when i arrived at home time another teacher i know told me that she'd been there & there were facilities, and 'as if' they'd take 3 classes of kids somewhere where there wasnt!
I wasn't pretty hot about this trip seeing as they've waited until the middle of November to do it, and as any genuinely concerned parent, I was worried about how cold my daughter would be seeing as they were leaving just after 9am & not returning to school until 3.15pm.

Off she went anyway, but when my husband picked her up from the woods car park the first thing she said to him was 'im so thirst daddy & my head really hurts'. He brought her home & we found out that they had not taken their water bottle's with them & she'd had nothing to drink whatsoever all day, despite being active for 5 hours walking & doing activities.
We also found out that there were no toilets provided & her & 3 of her friends were taken by some assistant she doesn't know to wee behind a tree out in a public wood!!!
She also told us, when questioned by us, they never went in any buildings & were outside all day. They'd sat on little stools under a sheet to eat their pack lunchs.

Now some of you on here will think i'm over reacting no doubt & appreciate it if all you want to say is a snide comment about my over bearing parenting, but, in my opinion i feel they have done wrong.
I have made several enquiries with other people & as far as they know, there are no facilities whatsoever up at this wood, which my husband & I are going to visit this morning to find the country ranger & ask him himself.

If there aren't this means that no risk assessment could have been carried out, those teachers lied to my face after voicing my concerns, they let my daughter go without any fluids for over 5 hours despite being active & came home ill & with a headache, they let some stranger to her pull her pants down in a public wood to wee, and they gave them no form of shelter/heating for even a short period of time just to warm them up before going back out again.
Is any of this ok, does anyone with some knowledge actually know? From a parents point of view there's all sorts wrong with it. If there were facilities why did they choose not to use them?

SatinSandals - in that respect, it doesn't matter what you think, it's the reality that matters. My 5-year old ds would not have said if he was thirsty. He would also not have said he needed the loo, he would have wet himself instead, if toilet breaks had not been provided at appropriate times. Mind you, the teachers were aware he had an issue with expressing his needs to them at that age, so they would have, I hope, kept a close eye on him because they had reason to in his specific case. Which leads me to wonder how the OP's dd managed to build up the courage to ask for the loo, but not to ask for a drink. Sounds like she probably could have asked for a drink if she'd wanted to.

This thread really has made it hit home how far removed from nature people have become. bbc How to reconnect with nature

I know! I loved my children being outdoors for a whole day when they were little.

Op I would feel the same as you. 5 is very young to be out in the cold all day. And taking them somewhere with no loo is awful! I would speak to the head.

Charlotte....they had toilets just not at every 5 paces. It's a wood.

Ofgs I can't believe people think five year olds are too young/immature etc for "this kinda thing"

No wonder kids the days never do anything and sit playing games all day on the x box. It's a wood. Not crocodile infested waters. There are wonderful inventions called coats hats and gloves. Use them.

Walking is good for them. Why do people panic about having to actually walk outside.
Talk about precious.

Precious is an understatement!

I've been thinking- I just don't think that a school would take off for a trip without the children's water bottles if these were the ONLY drinks available. I would bet that they were supposed to have drinks in their lunchbox. As somebody mentioned up thread, if teachers had known she didn't have a drink, in my experience they would either share theirs (I've shared my sandwiches on trips more than once) or had a spare drink or two on them. This story just doesn't make total sense. As I said upthread yesterday, I would just love to hear this incident from the teachers perspective.

If the op doesn't trust the teachers at her child's school can I suggest that she either a) moves schools or b) keeps her child off of school trips

Quite unbelievable...

I think I am just on a different wavelength to a lot of people. We started early and carried ours in slings up hills, when they were too young for backpacks. It carried on from there, whole days at the bottom of crags rock climbing etc without any sign of civilisation. I suppose if you never go more than half a mile from a car park you do think it illegal or dangerous to wee behind a tree and can't contemplate that you can't pop into a shop if you run out of drink you will have problems when your child experiences it. Personally, I think it a good thing they do and a bit of discomfort isn't life threatening!

I love how it's always the teachers fault when parents are to stupid to even cope with the basics. Everyone was in the same boat fir heavens sake. It would have been the first trip for many parents. Still they managed to figure out how to dress their child and pack a lunch.

Seriously what could have happened. Teachers either remove a drink they don't need or child had two drinks. What's the big deal. I don't know why schools even bother tbh. My dd would have loved that. Instead of blaming teachers why can't parents prepare their children. Tell them to ask if they need anything. The teachers will be aware of the kids who struggle to communicate and would check on them but the rest of the kids should be able to ask surely? She managed to ask for a wee, why couldn't she ask her friend or teacher for a sip of drink??!!

I think that teachers know that their place is in the wrong!

Certainly by now they do. I can't imagine how exhausting it must be for teachers to have to write letters staring the bloody obvious. Even the kids would know most the time. To have to write "please put drinks in with lunch and make sure that they have a coat" in every sodding letter and stil have some idiot send their kid in a t shirt, shorts and sandals despite being told they are hiking in the woods.

a bit of discomfort isn't life threatening

I so agree with this. Children are quite tough, 5 year olds don't dehydrate at the drop of a hat, if they are chilly they can get quite warm by running around, if the kind of trip they are on is not particularly their cup of tea they learn in a safe way to deal with adversity. Which is a Good Thing.

I want my children to have a lovely time when they go on school trips and hopefully learn or experience something that they would not in the stuffy classroom - but they are member of a class: different children with different personalities and needs. It is important to learn to manage in different situations, particularly if they are out of their comfort zone.

These 'precious' children grow in to demanding, neurotic adults IME with lots of fears and little confidence or ability to cope when things don't go exactly as they expected them to. I am not talking about the OP or her child specifically btw, but in general this is my experience.

I wish there was a forest school near us

We went on two residential trips at my primary school. One in class 5 and one in class 8. I remember being so excited as soon as I found out about it in reception or yr 1. It involved getting messy and pond dipping and walking round wooded areas. It was fab. We had to sleep in a domitory and everything. hope they risk assessed the sleeping bag on wood floor game

No one carried bottles. No one dropped dead having to walk. And if we got cold then it was out own stupid fault for not putting a jumper on :o

I've lost count of the number of adults who Spouse and I have agreed to meet at some location or other for a good walk into the countryside. And then find we have to scale down/radically our plans because at least one of the adults has turned up inadequate jacket or thin canvas shoes or high heels. Because they think a country walk must mean a stroll down the High Street to a teashop. Or perhaps if they are very daring, a half hour saunter along a well-marked and perfectly level circular path in a patch of land owned by the National Trust (who will have provide sunshine and the gentlest breeze, even though the forecast is for clouds and gusty wind.)

Exactly, FrauMoose, I have had the same. We once had to cancel a walk in the Alps because it came on to rain and people didn't have adequate rain wear!

Exactly, FrauMoose, I have had the same. We once had to cancel a walk in the Alps because it came on to rain and people didn't have adequate rain wear! There was nothing else the leader could have done, she would have been irresponsible to continue, but we were cheesed off by the stupidity of people!

Jeez.

Why pay money to go on these things and yet not even ensure you had walking boots and jumpers etc. And then ruin it for everyone ffs

We had this recently too. Our family were all equipped with boots and jackets etc, yet the person whose house we were setting off from (and who therefore presumably had plenty of appropriate gear to choose from) insisted on wearing a blazer and patent loafers. She clearly didn't want to do a "rough" walk.

(I remember one lovely February half term where we stayed at a rather lush country hotel and spa in the middle of fab walks, and we came back after such a walk, all muddy and with caked boots, and the proprietress came running out to wrap us in binliners before entering. She must have thought we would not think to take our boots off and getting rid of most of the "walking debris" - We were SO out of place with our technical clothing and brightly coloured gore tex, in between all the tweed and oilskin)

I remember camping with the Guides in the 80s, no hot water or indoor facilities at all, washing up bowls balanced on sticks outside the toilet tent with an inch of cold soapy water in them. Amazingly none of us died.

OP, ignore much of these replies, anyone who's trying to belittle you claiming you're being OTT - well, you're not. You're just being a naturally concerned parent.
Our children are indeed precious, and still quite young to be out on day trips to the woods, and you are entitled to be worried about toilet facilities, refreshment availability and supervision.
I was nervous myself about the thought of my non-swimming 6 year old on a pond dipping trip to the largest and deepest reservoir in the county with only 3 adult supervisors, but I try to remember that primary teachers seem to be in it for the vocation after all, not clockwatching just to pay the bills.. Relinquishing care of your child even over to a professional is hard.
If it wasn't for other family input convincing me, I wouldn't have let my 6 year go on the day trip. Everyone around me was insistent I was being unreasonable. I was determined to keep her home. What changed my mind at the end was my daughter's enthusiasm for the day trip, she was looking forward to it so much I couldn't take that away from her.

Residential trips in primary school, though, I haven't crossed that bridge yet, but I already know that's going to be a toughie for me.

Ignore any vitriol, absolutely nothing unreasonable about being overly concerned.

good god no wonder people drive like dangerous twats if we live in a society that has so little understanding of risk.

I am so glad I come from a family that appreciates you have to experience the world to know what real danger is. I have completed at international level at a fairly risky sport. you need to experience small risks when young to assess and control in-so-far as possible unavoidable risks throughout your life.

risk is not avoidable. molly coddling and lack of preparedness is.

if you are cold outside in the UK, you are not dressed correctly.

weeing in the woods as a bad thing!!?!! get a grip!

DF competed in a sport internationally where bad assessment of risk can lead to death. he was also the most safety conscious person I have known.

People seem to forget that the whole point of being a parent is to give the skills to be able to cope without you. This means letting others - relatives, carers, friends, teachers - have significant input into your child's life.

It also means that children have to experience, from quite an early age, situations in which they are not held in some sort of everlasting, artificial womb.

Yes, they also need to know that when the going gets tough people will come to hug them and help them. But children need to fall over sometimes, to be cold, hungry and thirsty. Even a bit sad. To make mistakes, so that they can start thinking about what the right answer might be.

"Your aim as a parent is to make yourself redundant" - says my colleague with adult children.
So true.

Allow them to experience the world in small and safe increments, allow them to learn how to do assess risk and teach them how to deal with situations.
Not to protect them from everything which leads to them not being able to deal with anything.