can't be 'polite' and good any longer....

[swallowedAfly]

ds goes to a village primary with all the subsequent over-reliance on parents wealth, education, time, etc. re: assuming sahms are the norm, money is plentiful for fanciful trips and activities, we all know how to sew up costumes at the drop of a hat etc.

that's fine. i chose to live here. however....

homework is way over the top in terms of quantity and right from day one of school. one part of homework (there is loads) is the 'learning log' which is pretended to be something children could do indepndently and consolidates learning. except in reality it is not, by a long shot.

i've put up with it and put up with and felt enslaven to doing it until today when i've had enough. this week for ds (6yo and one of the most able in his year) it says, "show me what you've learned about number bonds up to 20 and what patterns you can see". then there's a blank page.

i don't know why (because this is far from the worst that's come home) but today i've had enough and found myself writing on the page that i have no idea what the learning objective is, what outcomes they're hoping for or how the hell they see this as differentiated. i've also asked how they think a parent with numeracy or literacy problems would tackle this task and whether they would actually set this as a task in class to 6yos and expect a meaningful outcome.

there is no context, no structure, no literacy support, no prompts nothing. same as ever. sometimes the tasks don't even relate to anything they've been learning.

am i totally unreasonable or would you after a year or so be fed up too? i am (if it's not obvious) an ex teacher and i know what education is supposed to be about and this is not it. homework should be meaningful. how could a 6yo read that question and face a blank page and do something a teacher could look at and assess to see what they've learnt? they couldn't.

on top of this learning log (given on a friday and expected in by tuesday) daily reading and signing of reading book is expected plus other bits and bobs. he's 6! he's been getting this since 5 at a point where some kids couldn't even write let alone face a blank page and an open ended task and produce something yet they'd get in trouble if they didn't. this is just a test of parents surely? and an unfair one given it assumes knowledge and literacy that some parents won't have?

sorry for long random rant but help! i'm not playing this game anymore and i'm ready to speak up. it's a joke.

I do understand teachers cannot win on homework - that is why it needs to come down from above - if Gove (or indeed a strong head in her prospectus) said - no homework in primary because there is no educational justification for it parents would have to accept that.

For the keen or pushy there are plenty of workbooks in Smiths or free web sites to test your children or occupy them at home. Your choice.

mrz You can't teach our children without caring for them, so it is your job. It wouldn't be if parents were supposed to say on site. Yes the govenment does expect you to provide childcare, people cannot claim benefits just because their children are in school.

Regarding the work sent home. It just needs to reinforce what you have taught at school (some posters have argued often the homework content has not been taught) and not be too burdensome...maybe make it clear that it is optional.

My DC went to a small village primary that sounds like yours. Hugely OTT homework. In year 1.
DS2 was able enough but overwhelmed by it. It was causing such stress at home that I went into see the teacher and told her that I would read with him daily but he would not be doing anything else until he was older and ready for it. The teacher was surprisingly supportive. The alpha mothers thought I was condemning him to failure.
He was just a baby.
He's 15 now and hopefully on target for good GCSE grades. Quite unhindered by his failure to spend hours on homework at the age of 6.

Yes bramble - that is why I do it - I am finding new knowledge and identifying new avenues to explore. And I love it.

But when I publish my results it has to be with clarity and attention to detail - I have to make sure the reader will read and understand what I am meaning - it's different to writing beautiful and inspiring literature that can (and possibly should?) mean different things to different people. If my papers do that I have probably failed to communicate effectively!

I agree School does = child care and when I was at school it did.

School wouldn't have contemplated sending us home if we were a bit ill or had the wrong shoes on. No way would school have suddenly changed arrangements at no notice.

mobile phones and expecting everyone to own cars lead to some unbelievably lazy and smug behaviour by schools.

Myth But what if the results have a just little ambiguity in them,,,go on leave us guessing.....I understand the difference in writing styles just don't think you can take the mystery out of everything.....there is always more to find out.

I think you've confirmed that some parents don't see the different between the role of childminders and that of teachers brambleandapple

Have only read first page saf ....

basically I think it's OK to have open ended home-work and even projects that encourage parental input, but I think this task was just too difficult for
5 and 6 year olds.

I agree there could have been some actual number bond questions from 1 to 10, and then something more open ended about spotting any patterns, or (as extension task) can you give some number bonds from 11 to 20.

Personally I'd quite like to see the parental input acknowledged more openly, such as "can you ask a parent whether they can spot any patterns in your number bonds?"

I agree that even as a graduate and qualified teacher I'd not be that confident about what they mean by number bonds - definitely more guidance needed for both child and parent

mrz I most certainly do see the difference. Teachers teach and care for our children. Childminders care for our children and do not have to teach, although this is getting blurred now as they fill in a EYFS profile (before school entry), I think.

How do you teach without looking after and caring for children mrz?

No childminders do not fill in EYFS profiles as these are only completed at the end of reception ...

Where have I said teachers don't care for the children they teach brambleandapple? I said schools aren't free childcare ...very different things as you well know.

I think the point is about the PRINCIPAL role of teachers.

My principal role - in fact my legal role - as a teacher is to ensure children receive a full-time education appropriate to their interests and aptitudes - that is the responsibility that you, as parents, have delegated to me as a teacher in a state school (some parents choose not to delegate that responsibility, and home educate. Others choose to delegate it to private schools. But it is your responsibility as a parent to ansure that your children receive such an education, and you delegate it to me and to teachers like me to deliver it for you).

If your child is too unwell to take part in that full time education, then it is not my responsibility to look after them - that is yours as a parent.

If, in order to deliver that education even better, I need training (e.g. an INSET day), then as long as your child gets the number of school days laid down by law, then it is reasonable to expect that I should receive that training.

Equally, if that education is best delivered through an off-site trip, it is reasonable to arrange such a trip - and if unforseen events occur, to change the date of that trip.

If a child is wearing incorrect uniform, I personally would never send them home. If they do not have safe PE kit, however, I would not be able to let them take part in a PE lesson.

mrz If I knew what you were going on about I wouldn't have asked...

teacherwith2kids I do not disagree with you.

children receive a full-time education appropriate to their interests and aptitudes - that is the responsibility that you, as parents, have delegated to me as a teacher in a state school

Essentially a lot of posters are arguing if we have delegated the responsibility why all the homework, which involves some input or level of teaching, from parents, at home?

You may well ask the question. Below the general 'legal responsibility' there are a number of other statutory (National Curriculum - well, up to this year) or advisory documents which guide our work. Within these is guidance about areas such as homework.

Not all guidance is, unfortunately, based on decent, or even any, educational research, otherwise more notice would be taken of evidence that primary homework has almost zero effect on children's progress.

One of the most powerful 'enforcers' of such guidance is, sadly, Ofsted (and you cannot deny that much importance is attached on MN and elsewhere to Ofsted reports, so we cannot on the one hand say 'Ofsted is bunk' and then say 'but this school is rated 3 and will fail next time andI i believe this to be relevant to my child's education'). Homework is explicitly mentioned in the School Inspection handbook as a measure of the quality of teaching....

If you think about the educational philosophy behind the public school education of certain ministers you get an idea of the pressure placed on schools to emulate them to be deemed "successful".

My PERSONAL belief is that if you as a parent find yourself teaching a child as part of homework, the homework should be returned incomplete with a note to that effect - thus the teacher knows where to teach further. In the same way, I believe the OP should have handed the learning log to their child, said 'can you read what your teacher wants you to do?', allowed 20 minutes or so for its completion, and sent the book back in .

A vicious spiral can otherwise develop in which a parent, believing that COMPLETING the homework is what is most important, thinks they must teach the child. then the child appears to be able to do something, so the next homework assumes that the child knows more than they actually do...and so on. If all parents simply let their child do as much of their homework as possible in a limited period (only working collaboratively if the instructions specifically stated it e.g. read x to your child...play this game together) and then returned the book / record to show what the child could really do, much homework would be recalibrated.

I agree teacherwith2kids.

Personally, I believe every child should be read to, or with, or given space, opportunity and books to read daily.

I also welcome any support children are given in those (relatively few) areas of the curriculum where 'rote learning of facts' is required - addition facts / times tables being the main one relevant to primary age children.

Otherwise, no, I don't like homework. I don't see any benefit of it for primary age children. I do, as a professional, have knowledge of a variety of websites, games, activities, places that might be interesting and relevant to children in my class, and would be happy to share that knowledge and suggest appropriate ones for a child's interests. But no, I don't like setting homework.

I don't think I've ever felt that I've delegated my DCs education to teachers 100% - yes, for the school day, but otherwise I do think I've seen it as a joint enterprise - a partnership, with lots to learn outside school as well, and part of my role as their mother definitely to teach them things, and give them lots of interesting (educational) opportunities.
(Possibly affected by having been a teacher myself too)

Homework is a bit of a grey area isn't it?
I like it when it's quite project based and open-ended, but equally not too demanding. I'd like it if there were more opportunities for DC to share things they've done out of school with their peers/friends in school

• such as we saw some amazing wildlife in the holidays and DC could give a presentation on that - except DS has just gone up to secondary where I can see that might be harder to fit in to the curriculum.

But at primary I think speaking and listening is very important and there could be more creative opportunities to share experiences.

Teacher it is a fine line though. Many will explain if they can and if their child can then complete the homework - job done. Speaking to the teacher can cause problems if they are not very welcoming, ditto writing notes. Your child might also have to complete the homework in their break, which they can see as punitive...

That's a really good suggestion teacherwithkids - I think I shall adopt it forthwith!

Bramble - you are teasing me science is indeed one big mystery and all we do is baby steps and prove things wrong on the whole. Still, my experiments have to be reported so that someone can replicate them exactly and corroborate (hopefully!) my findings. No good having them in the lab scratching their head and thinking 'What the blazes does she mean by THAT?' Or worse being accused of fabricating results!

Myth

Agree with you MrsDeV - let's ditch homework and just work on improving a more genuine home-school partnership.

Maybe some homework in Y5&6 as preparation for move up to secondary school ?

really brambleandapple? you don't understand the difference between care and childcare