can't be 'polite' and good any longer....

[swallowedAfly]

ds goes to a village primary with all the subsequent over-reliance on parents wealth, education, time, etc. re: assuming sahms are the norm, money is plentiful for fanciful trips and activities, we all know how to sew up costumes at the drop of a hat etc.

that's fine. i chose to live here. however....

homework is way over the top in terms of quantity and right from day one of school. one part of homework (there is loads) is the 'learning log' which is pretended to be something children could do indepndently and consolidates learning. except in reality it is not, by a long shot.

i've put up with it and put up with and felt enslaven to doing it until today when i've had enough. this week for ds (6yo and one of the most able in his year) it says, "show me what you've learned about number bonds up to 20 and what patterns you can see". then there's a blank page.

i don't know why (because this is far from the worst that's come home) but today i've had enough and found myself writing on the page that i have no idea what the learning objective is, what outcomes they're hoping for or how the hell they see this as differentiated. i've also asked how they think a parent with numeracy or literacy problems would tackle this task and whether they would actually set this as a task in class to 6yos and expect a meaningful outcome.

there is no context, no structure, no literacy support, no prompts nothing. same as ever. sometimes the tasks don't even relate to anything they've been learning.

am i totally unreasonable or would you after a year or so be fed up too? i am (if it's not obvious) an ex teacher and i know what education is supposed to be about and this is not it. homework should be meaningful. how could a 6yo read that question and face a blank page and do something a teacher could look at and assess to see what they've learnt? they couldn't.

on top of this learning log (given on a friday and expected in by tuesday) daily reading and signing of reading book is expected plus other bits and bobs. he's 6! he's been getting this since 5 at a point where some kids couldn't even write let alone face a blank page and an open ended task and produce something yet they'd get in trouble if they didn't. this is just a test of parents surely? and an unfair one given it assumes knowledge and literacy that some parents won't have?

sorry for long random rant but help! i'm not playing this game anymore and i'm ready to speak up. it's a joke.

"there could be more creative opportunities to share experiences."

The risk, here at least, is the parental arms-race. DD achieved something quite cool/interesting over the summer and in principle could have taken that to a weekly achievements (in practice "I've got a certificate") assembly, but quite a few parents go to those and we thought it would probably do more harm than good.

Funnily enough, when they get to secondary, teachers want parents to actively back off over homework, otherwise you end up with beautiful homework that the kid doesn't understand.

I've rolled my eyes more than once at receiving homework in the parent's handwriting!

mrz ? No I don't really see how you can say schools do not provide child care. Child care settings also send home children if they are ill....

As I have said I understand a teacher's primary role is to teach.

Now the difference between care and child care, off course I understand this as children are not the only people we can care for. I don't know where you got the idea that I don't know the difference.

I noticed when there was the teacher's strike recently someone from the union said that he understood it was difficult for parents to find alternative child care - acknowledging that this is one aspect of what schools provide for children and families ?
They do look after the children from 9-3 ish after all ?

What has childcare got to do with sending ill children home?

"I'd like it if there were more opportunities for DC to share things they've done out of school with their peers/friends in school"

But that can be HUGELY devisive. What about the child who says 'well, I went home and looked after my disabled mum, like I always do. then i cooked tea for my younger brother and we went to bed' (and that's on the mild edge of the spectrum... 'I went home and hid in my room because my mum was 'working' with some men who were in her room' might raise the odd MC eyebrow if reported as a 'what did you do at the weekend'!)

No JugglingFromHereToThere they educate children from 9-3 ish there is a difference in role.

*I'd like it if there were more opportunities for DC to share things they've done out of school with their peers/friends in school

• such as we saw some amazing wildlife in the holidays and DC could give a presentation on that*

as teacherwith2kids pointed out, what would be the learning outcome of that for many of the rest of the class? i remember in year 4 one child giving a presentation on 'their trip to Cannes in a limousine' I was disgusted at this use of class time and complained about it - the person i complained to was none too impressed either although ofc they couldnt say that to me directly.

wow mrz - i guess you forgo your salary and are just doing a favour to the state? good on you.

lawyers wouldn't look after my child from 8.50 to 3.20 no because it's not their job and they don't get paid to do it. you do. you're educating them yes but there is also an obvious clear reality that the state would not have workers if it didn't have schools.

if you don't like your job don't do it.

and they clearly don't 'educate from 9-3' - children have lunch, playtimes, etc for which additional staff are employed for their care and supervision. the school takes on the 'duty of care' between times x and y.

how is this not obvious and arguable unless all you're really arguing about is that parents shouldnt' have the audacity to rely on schools as caring for their children? what audacity is that? is it that you're doing us a favour and we shouldn't take jobs and assume we have time because you might withdraw that favour?

schools are contracted by the state, funded by the state (via tax income from all of us) to provide a service. they're not a little charidee doing a favour.

I don't think there are may teachers who actually WANT to give homework, quite frankly it is a pain! As we have seen here, there are children who complete it independently, some homework is clearly the work of parents and can give a misleading impression of what a child has retained/understands/has been taught at home, some is never completed at all and ( in my school) necessitates the teacher missing break/lunchtime to ensure it is completed. Some parents complain there is too much, the same number complain there is not enough ( parental questionnaires are almost uniformly split between the two views) Finding differentiated activities that children MIGHT be able to do unaided and follows on from what has been taught in class whilst assuming there may be some/huge amounts of /no parental input is almost impossible. Marking is a pain on top of marking 33 Literacy, numeracy and topic books daily and no-one is EVER happy about when it is given out, half the parents want it on Friday to hand in on Monday and half want it handed out on Monday to hand in on Friday! So, as a teacher, I would quite happily ditch homework!
EXCEPT
as teacherwith2kids has said, it is one of the key areas OFSTED look at and as schools are judged on OFSTED gradings it is a very brave Head who says that homework will not be given out. Teachers themselves don't ( unfortunately) have the authority to make a unilateral decision NOT to hand homework out, if it is school policy to do so, then refusing would be a disciplinary offence.

no swallowedafly I'm paid to teach children which is exactly what I do and run booster groups for literacy during lunch breaks (in my own time by choice) ... schools are funded to provide education for the pupils not to provide childcare for working parents.

You seem to forget teachers are parents and taxpayers too

Who is going to abandon their five year old at a school that made no effort to 'care' for it, e.g. Made sure they didn't wander off at break, left them in soiled clothing, didn't comfort and help them if they were upset or injured and didn't ensure they got on the right school bus home (rural area - excellent school bus service!).

That is not educating them - it is in loco parentis child care - I don't think you can separate the two at that age can you? Why would anyone go into primary education if they were not prepared to care for children?

Incidentally, I still have a pastoral duty to keep track of my adult university students - can't tell their parents anything without their consent but still spend time comforting and reassuring weeping 18 year olds at all hours - it's the decent thing to do.

I think the point is that there is a difference between a teacher have loco parentis whilst their prime role is to teach, and the expectation we are free childcare above all else.
There is a tension between the government's (and some parents) expectations of how much responsibility for "care" teachers should carry (e.g. constant nanny state attitude) and teachers concern that this is taking time, money and energy away from actually having time to teach the basics of reading, writing and maths.

Mytholmroyd perhaps you don't understand that there is a difference between care and "childcare" ... if I had wanted to work in childcare I wouldn't have spent 4 years training to be a teacher and then I could have joined in the teacher bashing based on the grounds that I'm a tax payer and a parent.

Spanieleyes,
It is the case in my daughter's class. Some parents would prefer F-M others F-M home works. I always do it the same day my daughter brings it home and ask her to put it to the HW tray the next day. This way I won't forget and the teacher can read through in her spare time.

I really admire local teachers for the job they do. It is so hard to work with children with such wide range of abilities. Taking on 6 special needs children, have 30 children in a class in addition each parent has different requests. I don't know why would somebody ask not to have HW. On the other hand I would not change books for very advanced readers every day or listen to them once a week. There should be less Assemblies, too.

It's a question of direct vs indirect benefits, isn't it?

I educate your child (direct benefit). You therefore spend that time working without having to use paid for childcare between those hours (indirect benefit).

My concern is to provide the DIRECT benefit to the utmost of my abilities - and while I should not be totally heedless of the possible INDIRECT benefits of what i do, they should not be my ain concern.

You obviously hate the school. Why don't you change and find a new one that is more suited to your ideals?

One example might be 'snow days'.

If it snows reasonably heavily, my concerns are:

• Can I educate your child today?
• Can I keep your child safe today?
• Can I get to school to do this safely?
• Can I do so during exactly the normal hours eg. 8.45 - 3.15?

On many snow days, I cannot educate your child effectively. One or more teachers might not be in, many children might be unable to get to school safely. Occasionally, choosing to open the school even when eucation cannot be delivered is acceptable.

So I move on to number 2. That will depend critically on the stae of the buildings and grounds, and the number of staff who can get to school safely for 8.45. If only 2 staff can get to school safely FOR THAT TIME, while 300 pupils can, that is not safe.

The opportunity is not always there to open later / close earlier, especially on Day 1.

So I am not REQUIRED to open the school just because some parents would like childcare just so that they can struggle into work (which for them they might acceptably reach for 10 or 11 am), because I cannot deliver an appropriate education safely.

I believe most teachers would manage to struggle in if they had to lose a day's holiday like everyone else.
I don't need child care by the way. My DC are old enough to be home alone but last year school shut because in half an inch of snow the buses were not running. 50% of the children could have walked to school.

secretscwirrels teachers don't lose a day's holiday (because they have no choice in when to take holidays) but they do lose a day's pay if they can't make it in to school due to the weather.

Maybe 50% of the children could have got in, the nature of schooling is that children live in the area or close to their school. But most of the teachers at my school live at least half an hour's drive from school, many in very rural locations. Our severe weather policy places the burden of decision making on the individual teacher whether they can make it in safely. We cannot force a teacher to drive into school if they feel it is unsafe to do so.
EVERY snow day we have opened on a skeleton staff, but with enough qualified adults to ensure children are safe and in the knowledge that we had not put any staff's lives at risk by forcing them to drive in dangerous conditions, especially when the police's advice not to drive. Despite this we have actually had cross parents and I've been shouted at for actually opening and depriving their child of a snow day!

I'm not teacher bashing mrz - railing against a system and educational and largely unfounded dogma surrounding homework. If I put my child in a school I expect the professionals there to run it well and have the professional freedom to do the job they've spent all those years training for. I hate the government intervention in the profession.

I understand it is a minefield damned if you do damned if you don't - but if the government fines parents for not sending their small child to school (ie it is compulsory ) they have to look after the child as responsibly as the parent would (and I know there are wonderful teachers who actually do it better).

As a previous poster said - there is an expectation now that everyone is available every minute of the day and everyone has a car and can collect their child quickly at any time of day. When I was at school I spent hours sometimes in the sick room waiting for my mother to come and get me. It was normal - she like most didn't have a car. The school understood. We all worked together for the good of the community.

It's sad that the relationship between teachers, parents and kids and community has gone the way it has.

And I think the eroding of respect and status of the schoolteacher by the government is a big factor. Give the heads back the autonomy they used to have - you don't really need ofsted to tell you what is a good school in an area - just speak to the head and ask the parents which school everyone tries to get their kids into.

I didn't think homework in primary was compulsory anyway? So surely ofsted cannot make you do it?

Unfortunately, long gone are the days of a sick room and a member of staff to supervise it. Now it is a child with a bucket in the corner of my classroom, while I teach the other 29. No room to send them to, no one else to supervise them.