can't be 'polite' and good any longer....

[swallowedAfly]

ds goes to a village primary with all the subsequent over-reliance on parents wealth, education, time, etc. re: assuming sahms are the norm, money is plentiful for fanciful trips and activities, we all know how to sew up costumes at the drop of a hat etc.

that's fine. i chose to live here. however....

homework is way over the top in terms of quantity and right from day one of school. one part of homework (there is loads) is the 'learning log' which is pretended to be something children could do indepndently and consolidates learning. except in reality it is not, by a long shot.

i've put up with it and put up with and felt enslaven to doing it until today when i've had enough. this week for ds (6yo and one of the most able in his year) it says, "show me what you've learned about number bonds up to 20 and what patterns you can see". then there's a blank page.

i don't know why (because this is far from the worst that's come home) but today i've had enough and found myself writing on the page that i have no idea what the learning objective is, what outcomes they're hoping for or how the hell they see this as differentiated. i've also asked how they think a parent with numeracy or literacy problems would tackle this task and whether they would actually set this as a task in class to 6yos and expect a meaningful outcome.

there is no context, no structure, no literacy support, no prompts nothing. same as ever. sometimes the tasks don't even relate to anything they've been learning.

am i totally unreasonable or would you after a year or so be fed up too? i am (if it's not obvious) an ex teacher and i know what education is supposed to be about and this is not it. homework should be meaningful. how could a 6yo read that question and face a blank page and do something a teacher could look at and assess to see what they've learnt? they couldn't.

on top of this learning log (given on a friday and expected in by tuesday) daily reading and signing of reading book is expected plus other bits and bobs. he's 6! he's been getting this since 5 at a point where some kids couldn't even write let alone face a blank page and an open ended task and produce something yet they'd get in trouble if they didn't. this is just a test of parents surely? and an unfair one given it assumes knowledge and literacy that some parents won't have?

sorry for long random rant but help! i'm not playing this game anymore and i'm ready to speak up. it's a joke.

Wow star struck.

And you learn that the true indicator of success with dcs and their reading is when they continue to enjoy it when all the bollocks of the book and colour competition has gone.

I used to listen to the child who had finished all the book bands first, poor kid hated reading and was very miserable about it, I felt so sorry for him and he wasn't the only successful reader who felt the same way.

reading's not rocket science really though obviously a hell of a challenge if you have issues with it. bar those issues though it's a fairly automatic skill like driving or typing once you've got it. hardly something to brag about the colour book you're on or how many pages you read in a night.

it was a little beth orton gig bramble - i think it was 96 - i had to control my friend who was with me and behaving like a star struck school boy over jarvis' proximity.

Lovely, what do you think ol' Jarvis would say to all this bollocks?

i think he'd get the middle class complacency and sneer that exuded from the woman and what it meant for the kids.

been off on a googling tangent - the concert must have been 97 as i remember it was her birthday and she'd been off touring in america and had come home for her birthday, wanted to have a gig and a party and fun afterwards. i presume jarvis was invited to the after party - had a ciggie with him outside and then had to drag my friend off before he showed us up totally.

My little girl is 5 yo started school in august, i have been surprised by the amount of homework she brings home... i think like you i would have questioned the validity of such a set piece (at that age)

Daughter Mon-Friday

Word Tin (43 words and counting) name them and make sentence's (10)
Reading Book (read the entire book)
Writing (complete worksheet)
Numbers (complete worksheet)
Sounds (memorise sounds using phonics)

I would say that's reasonable for her age and she is coping well with it, i also like it because i get to see what she is learning and how well (or poor) she is doing and we have gotten into a nice routine with homework, have to say i enjoyed reading this thread, very interesting to see how schools are all doing it differently and also how everyone has their own idea's on how it should be done lol

I think it's perfectly reasonable to question homework as a parent if you feel it's inappropriate x

This sounds horrendous and made me bristle just reading it. I'm glad to hear it's not the norm at least (DD is under 2 and I'm reading the school days after reading MN for a few years).

It doesnt sound like the head or teacher will take you seriously - could you escalate it higher?

thanks cheeky.

and chased, thank you. yes i could though reading between the lines (with help from experts who 'get' it for primary better than me including a primary headteacher whose looked into it as a favour to my boss) of the last ofsted they're heading for a fail anyway.

you used to be able to get away with going oh look how great we are and how nice our kids are and how we don't have many problems and are sats are ok. now ofsted is inclined to say err, yes, you have a higher than average white british intake, a lower than average sen intake, a favourable socio economic climate with the vast majority of your pupils coming from supportive, stable home backgrounds now what is it YOU are doing/adding/improving with your six hours a day?

the last inspection was a level three, a level three means needs improvement, if you then just brush it under the carpet, keep deluding yourself there's nothing wrong and it's all good you'll likely end up in special measures next time.

let's face it if ofsted telling them hasn't shaken them out of smug complacency and 1954 i doubt i'll be able to.

sad thing also is that the headteacher is just about retirement age you know? he'll leave (be made to leave) either before if he jumps or after if pushed the next inspection. it would take someone new to drag it out of the dark ages. with retirement just ahead what is your real impetus to stress and change and work harder if you're complacent, smug and arrogant anyway?

he'll sit it out, the school will reflect it, eventually ofsted will come down harder, he'll leave and someone else will have to pull them into the present and decent teaching and learning practices.

I checked my daughter's reading record it was the East of the Sun and West of the Moon. It is a "Young Reading Series 2 book recommended for KS1E, 6y+." All books in YRS2 are 64!!! pages long. That means many 6yo in the UK are reading 64 pages long books. I counted over 50 books that are YRS2.

I don't think it's unusual for a 6 year old be be reading a book with 64 pages and if they get gripped on the story finishing it in one evening but I think setting homework to read a book of that length every evening for a six year old may turn a child off reading, it's happened with a few of my friend's children. Fortunately it wasn't permanent but it was a lesson learnt.

no concerns over how many pages the book has but yes concern over the idea that fifty pages a night would be being prescribed for mixed ability 6yos, in fact scrap that even if it was only being prescribed for very able 6yos it would still be ridiculous and perhaps even more ridiculous as it's like telling someone who can drive and has made it an automatic skill already that they need to drive a fifty mile journey every day to...? what would it be for?

I think that each child is reading a book based on his reading skills. The purple reader's are reading much shorter books (under 20 pages and simple vocabulary) however white level is for "children who are reading more confidently. They are 64 pages long and use varied sentence lengths, more complex sentence structure and more challenging vocabulary".

When this topic started (with it's original message) few of us felt that this school is just like our dd's.

I am just surprised how big the gap is in a mixed ability class. Giving differentiated home work and sending children to higher classes just widens it. On one of the MN topics TA's mentioned it can be up to 6 SEN children in a class. Just don't know how they are coping.

But SwallowedAfly do you think if a school does well needs to be downgraded because children are from affluent backgrounds and those schools that are not doing well academically should have higher grades for "helping disadvantaged children." I think the most objective way to compare schools is academical ability and just then to consider social mobility. This way Ofsted misleads disadvantaged regions where parents send their children to grade 1,2 schools but at the end children will come out with bad Sats (but with high added value low Sats).

I know each book is differentiated for different stages of learning - I've had two dcs using that scheme and I objected to the race to the end it created among the children and parents and encouraged by the teachers. Hammering through the reading scheme books did not produce more confident readers, it put children off because the focus was to finish the book not to take pleasure in the ideas, feelings, subject matter, illustrations, storyline etc. IMO joy of reading comes before everything else, if your dcs have been put off reading for pleasure by being pushed to read too much every evening, you will struggle to rekindle the love and you realise you've allowed your able child to be pushed it too far.
IME it was the able dcs who were put off reading, yes they could read but once the reading scheme was finished the whole thing was just a chore to them.

anitasmall Progress is an impotant indicator of a school's sucess so IMO added value is important.

Children with SENs can also be very gifted academically. However if the teacher does not take into account their SEN how much they learn can be compromised. Then the parents may end up effectively having to teach their child at home, to fill in the gaps. Homework wll often alert the parents to this. Then if you find all the cohort are struggling with the homework, you are left wondering as to what has happened.

The children with little or no support at home can then be really disadvantaged, widening the gap.

This way Ofsted misleads disadvantaged regions where parents send their children to grade 1,2 schools but at the end children will come out with bad Sats (but with high added value low Sats).

It is really diffficult to ascertain whether this is the case. So much relies on teacher assessment, which is not entirely objective and actually provides the opportunity to be entirely subjective. For some SEN children this way of assessmnet can conflict with their SEN, if a lot of the assessment is done through spoken interaction between groups of children, eg reading comprehension through Guided Reading. Is the EYFS or KS1 SATs (which is now based on teacher assessment) used to determine Value Added in Primary compared to KS2 SATs?

My son aged 7 loves books and has gone though rohl Dahl, diary if a wimpy kid, skulduggery pleasant, famous five, etc but that's not good enough apparently - The school sent me a long list of 'probing' questions I should be asking him about the books he reads.

As a child who also loved loosing myself in books, I couldn't imagine anything worse than my mum coming into my room to interrogate me about them or prying into that 'secret' world between me and the pages of the book. Would have made it a chore and put me off - fgs don't pick up a book or you will have to explain it all to somebody!

I know he understands what he is reading from his behaviour and constant nagging to get him the next book in the series or his delight when he comes home with one he's found on the shelves of the school library or that he can get his brain around quite complex mathematical problems.

The particular delights of English comprehension (A subject that bored me rigid at O level) are entirely the domain of the school curriculum - I'm not doing it for them!

I picked this school (luckily all local schools not full) because it had a good ofsted but mainly because it had great outdoor spaces - fields, courts, gardens, allotment etc (hankering after the Scandinavian model still) but this thread has made me think about moving him.

Get you Myth. I love reading but do not want to have to explain every book. A bit of digging can useful though and it can make more 'difficult' texts come alive or more straightforward texts more complex and interesting.

However I think there needs to be balance. You have to learn to love books first. If you get too many texts to pull apart you can really crave just to be able to read and not share (often complete trash).

You're right. I accept it can enhance understanding of the text but at seven? At home? I also know people enjoy book clubs (I wouldn't) and such like and if he feels the urge to tell me about his book - great - I'll listen but the relationship between a book and it's reader should be sacrosanct I rarely go much beyond a 'great book I highly recommend it!'

As a scientist I have to write as clearly and logically as possible so there is NO room for ambiguity, misunderstanding or interpretation - can't be doing with all this touchy feely 'so how does it make you feel' 'what do you think the author meant by that?' claptrap!

With apologies to all students of literature!

"can you imagine if lawyers or supermarkets or doctors or train contractors said"

I can imagine what a lawyer, supermarket or train contractor would say if you asked them to mind your child so you could go to work

Myth I don't like touchy feely crap either. But ambiguity, mystery.... now you're talking! (life long lit student here)

Surely, as a scientist, mystery is what spurs you on to want to discover more.....Without mystery and ambiguity life would be very boring. We'd just know it all. Science would be dead.

mrz Duh that is not their job.

We are just asking teachers to educate our children in the National Currculum and not expect parents to do this, or treat us like employees. Yes, learning occurs at home and makes a difference but that is due to the parent's influence and not the teacher's and should not be dictated by teachers. We have different things to teach.

You do look after and care for our children as well, I would hope. Otherwise we could not leave them with you, they are children and need looking after.

Schools can't win; undertake the "education" themselves and get accused of excluding parents, not respecting their intelligence or ability to educate their children. Involve them and get accused of abdicating their responsibility and being lazy in expecting the parents to do their job. If only parents would agree on what they actually want from homework, reading, etc. and schools might manage to give parents what they want.
If we give homework that children can undertake independently to reinforce the work in school some parents complain it isn't hard enough and introducing new skills to their child (because they, as parents, can teach it at home when the child doesn't understand it). If we provide what these parents want others complain the child can't do the homework and they haven't got the time to sit with them and teach them how to do it, that should be our job.
Are some posters here suggesting that we also differentiate homework on whether the parent will teach them how to do it?

brambleandapple Duh it isn't my job either ... sorry but my job is to teach the children in my class, it is not my job to be a childminder for the convenience of parents while they pop out for the day be it to work or the shop! but it seems some people including some politicians have come to regard schools as free child care and have lost sight of their true purpose. Frankly I don't expect parents to do my job but if I don't send work home one set of parents complain and if I do send work home another set complain ...