Teachers do not adhere to Statemented 1 to 1 support, do not believe in sub-levels, make APP assessments up....How much of what parents are told by schools about teaching is a box ticking exercise?

[Regards]

Following on from this thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1859219-Im-a-teacher-and-happy-to-answer-any-questions

and this:
community.tes.co.uk/tes_primary/f/36/t/381051.aspx?pi2132219857=1

I realised I was incredibly gullible when my DC first started school. What exactly should we believe concerning what the teachers tell us, how much is a PR job to cover up the ugly truth?

Because if you are then I'm actually pretty glad teachers aren't responsible alone for what is written in statements.

This is the last thing I'm going to ask, then I'm off to bed. Starlight, say I am teaching my class and can see the TA working with her pupil and the pupil is doing extremely well. Would you find it unacceptable for me to nab the TA and say "hold back a bit, let's see where he goes with this on his own?"

Are you suggesting that children with SEN just learn it through osmosis and neglect?
How extremely rude of you. I think it's quite clear I haven't suggested that. You are entirely unwilling to see another point of view besides your own, which makes you a really dull person to engage with.
Off to bed.

That's not what she was suggesting and you know it. You are both starting to sound like broken records.

I think you are obviously happy assuming that teachers are all liars and incompetents. If that's what you expect to see then that's what you will find.

The rest of us will get on with doing what is best for the children in our care.

With all due respect soap some teachers have admitted they can't do what is best.

All recognise there are problems. You can't expect parents to be pleased. We don't know who to trust. Professional judgement is no reassurance.

So what IS she suggesting soap? What on earth am I supposed to 'know' that makes everything alright, because I'm not trying to have an argument, I am trying to express my concern that teachers are breaking the law and either don't know it, or don't care.

And - Because it looked like she thought it was okay to nab statemented child's TA for other work and justify it to herself that it was to give that child independence.

This might seem like a reasonable course of action because it is just so common it has almost become 'common sense', but it is illegal nonetheless and it denies the child their rights.

There is nothing wrong of course, with a TA being trained in how to step back, monitor and step back in, but the test is always 'Does what x' TA is doing RIGHT NOW, have THAT child as their sole focus?

For example, not being with their charge because they are preparing a couple of model peers for a practise interaction with THAT child is still fulfilling the legal requirements of the statement, helping a different child with a maths question, is not.

Hiding round the corner observing THAT child arrive for school and organise his stuff, in order to plan some reminders at home-time or help him to compile a list of the things he got wrong to remember the next day, is fine, - ignoring his arrivial and listening to another parent's concerns about their child's food sensitivities is not.

And - Because it looked like she thought it was okay to nab statemented child's TA for other work and justify it to herself that it was to give that child independence.

Oh fuck off! Look at what I wrote. I suggested a scenario where I said to the TA "let's hold back and see how he does with this on his own." Perfectly OK. Stop twisting things.

Whether you are meaning to or not, that is exactly how it sounds.

Some children need one to one in order to learn, some children don't need to have someone next to them all of the time. Some only need their one to one in specific situations but that person needs to available at all times should particular events occur. Most children only get a few hours so that time needs to be directed by the teacher unless for a specific subject.

The experts aren't necessarily all that expert. Often their ideas and advice are by flow chart. Child has x they need y. I'm finding this with my own son.

Absolutely the system isn't perfect. Nothing and nobody is and I'm sorry for the people who have been terribly let down by it.

However, comparing carefully crafted opportunities for children to progress with wholesale dereliction of care for specific children is entirely unfair and unwarranted.

soap I think parents just want some transparency and honesty. The Statement reflecting their child's needs with accuracy and in turn being adhered to in the classroom.

Trouble is the system has been far too slow and clunky. If needs change it has been easier to relocate those funds to support another child than secure funding for that other child. If needs are not continuous or a child is not disruptive albeit not learning, ditto.

This is bad teaching or management or indeed LA policy (with the example of policies that resist changes being made to a Statement).

It is not surprising some have been unscrupulous or have felt pressure to become so...

Yeah because I don't know what it's like to have people say horrible things about my child. Thank you for making that assumption.

Again you are determind to miss understand. Nobody has said it is ok for a ta specifically there for one child to be removed so that they can piss about with other activities. However, many people are pointing out that things aren't as black and white as you like to think.

If you have a problem with your child's provision then deal with your school.

TA's cannot tell parents to piss off because they don't work with their child. Most parents just see a member of staff. Neither can they tell a child to go away if they ask for help because they are not their charge. If another child is injured should the ta ignore them? If the teacher is getting punched in the face, should the ta ignore that too because it has nothing to do with them?

Apologies. I thought you meant you would 'nab' them for other duties.

However, I would like to think that the TA was sufficiently trained or instructed by the teacher, as well as be sufficiently knowledgeable about the child's targets, competent in measurement and data-collection (as the data will inform them better than a teacher's opinion when they have 30 others to teach) to know exactly when to become vigilant wallpaper and not regularly need the teachers direction on that.

Op you must be exhausted trying to keep on top of the minutiae of you child's day.

I trust my child's school to do what they think is best for my child. They are trained professionals. I couldn't let my child go to a school where the I can't trust the staff, it would be unsettling for my child if she heard I had doubts and wouldn't be fair on her.

Schools can never be perfect but parents aren't either.

As I said. 121 on a statement is just a way of quantifying the level of support needed in a way that makes sense to the accountants and the heads for staff planning . It is misleading but at the moment that: is all we have.

It would seem obvious to most because disabilities are not part-time. Yes you need to keep an eye out for slack attitudes, they do still sadly exist, but banging on about accurate hours just creates conflict.

Sorry.

Yup, and mine most certainly is. She has more degrees than me and is a generally brilliant woman!
However, as I'm responsible for planning the work she completes with her charge, and ultimately I'm responsible for the education of the child, it might well be me who makes the call to take a step back.

'If you have a problem with your child's provision then deal with your school.'

How many teachers tell parents that their child's 1:1 is being used illegally?

How is a parent to find out if the teacher is unwilling to risk her career (As mentioned in this thread)?

What then is the parent supposed to do about it?

How is the parent supposed to police it?

My child has been taken out of 5 schools for this very topic. I had to fecking hide in bushes to find out and when I challenged schools and teachers they LIED to me about it.

5 schools, - before he was 6 years old

How many more schools do you think it would have taken before someone actually adhered to the law?

What repercussions do you think would have been appropriate for those teachers, those schools?

'They are trained professionals.'

They are not trained in SEN. If you're lucky, you'll get a teacher that chose the optional essay to be ONE SEN rather than ESL, (which is the preferred one) when they are doing their teacher training.

Local Authority level training happens rarely, is delivered by numpties promoted out of the classroom before they cause real harm, who attended a 2 day course on SEN and then bang on about ''managing' children with SEN in the classroom' as opposed to 'Educating' as the remit for the LA is to contain these children for as long as possible in the least expensive placement until they become the problem for the social care budget.

My child with a Statement always happened to be placed in groups with un-statemented children with SEN.

Another mother, of one of these children, was pleased when she told me he had a TA to support him on his table that year.

I knew who vaguely was Statemented as some details, concerning how they traveled to school, were on a School Travel Plan (published by the Council as part of a Planning application). This child did not fit the bill. Others on the table also had SEN, mothers told me, but again no Statement.

Needless to say this was not openly discussed with me by the school.

'If the teacher is getting punched in the face, should the ta ignore that too because it has nothing to do with them?'

Yes, if it is a regular occurrence because she should not be used as an alternative to proper support for that teacher and child.

I knew who vaguely was Statemented
So you guessed who was statemented.

Needless to say this was not openly discussed with me by the school.
Yes, needless to say, other children's SEN status was not openly discussed with you.

My child with a Statement always happened to be placed in groups with un-statemented children with SEN.
Are they children working at a similar academic level to your DC? Would you rather him sit alone with his TA?

Another mother, of one of these children, was pleased when she told me he had a TA to support him on his table that year
So perhaps her DC has gone home and said I'm on a table X,Y,Z and Mrs A. Mother has not realised Mrs A is 121 with a child.

There seem to be a lot of assumptions for the worse on your part, tbh.

Ask the ta. Ask to speak to the ta about how your child is doing. Ask specific questions about their day. How did they manage with x? We've noticed this happening at home, how did you handle it here?

If there are working with your child in they way they are supposed to they will have immediate answers without the need to refer to the teacher.

If answers are generalised or they say, well I wasn't with him for that session. Then you'll know.

Getstuffezd I was nagging my dds primary school for years to back off her with the 121. However the school had very few sn children and most other parents wanted their lsa to be with their child exclusively. It held her back. It held the others back too. That school was a big mistake but I realised too late to move her. She is now in a mainstream secondary where they she has come on leaps and bounds.