Teachers do not adhere to Statemented 1 to 1 support, do not believe in sub-levels, make APP assessments up....How much of what parents are told by schools about teaching is a box ticking exercise?

[Regards]

Following on from this thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1859219-Im-a-teacher-and-happy-to-answer-any-questions

and this:
community.tes.co.uk/tes_primary/f/36/t/381051.aspx?pi2132219857=1

I realised I was incredibly gullible when my DC first started school. What exactly should we believe concerning what the teachers tell us, how much is a PR job to cover up the ugly truth?

mrs pots must ignore children, their needs, their emotions, reality, fires, assaults and EVERYTHING to give her undivided attention to starlights child apparently.

because the needs of everyone else don't matter AT ALL.

Sorry last post was to Starlight. Support received can be important if one of the objectives in independence / reducing reliance on support.

Only if appropriate, but how can you tell without this reporting? There is a certain amount you have to 'suck and see'.

as if you'd want mrs pots being your child's ta if she was capable of being such a cold hearted witch that she wouldn't help jenny tie her shoe or billy spell 'field' or save little clara from being burnt alive in a fire because 'it isn't in her job description'.

Soap There is still a need to report quantitatively though!

and imagine your child being in a classroom with adults who refuse to help her because she isn't their job? you surely get the.... compassion and spirit of teamwork and support that has to go in a classroom? you get that these are little children not customers or jobs?

No I don't think so soapbox

Some of the Teachers here are saying that the teacher should be able to use their discretion to be flexible with the TA's support for the child with 1:1 in their statement to allow the child to be a part of the class.

I am saying that Timmy should get every minute he is entitled to by law, to be supported in his ability towards his targets and participation in the class.

swallowed Nobody has said it is not in any child's interests for a TA to model compassion. There has to be a sense of scale in all this though if she is there to support that child primarily.

I think a lot of this would come out in the wash at planning stage to be honest. Who is working with which children and why. The TA dedicated to doing the photocopying or spending time with a different group in a different classroom must be on some plan somewhere.

Parents don't get to see the plans though, usually. Can HT's even demand to see lesson plans?

Regards. I'm not disagreeing with that either.

I just object to be told by some that I have no professional acumen and that I am deliberately trying to thwart the most needy children in my care.

I do not keep secrets, I do not let children flounder, I do not send ta's off to do admin jobs which I'm not legally supposed to be doing anyway , I do not ignore parents, I do not lie about progress or support.

Yet I'm a bad person for getting my children to achieve, progress and flourish.

If this means I'm bad, then I don't wanna be right

this is a tricky conversation because regards you are saying 'primarily' but if you look at the post above (and many others) by starlight you'll see she is saying something very different. it's the 'very different' bit i'm stunned by as it seems to deny reality and the spirit of education and working with children and creating a positive learning environment that fosters all children etc is totally ignored.

That question was tongue in cheek. My point is to allow a child to meet an independence target, support has to step back. It's one or the other. Neither option is pleasing to you.

I understand that my outstanding teaching means nothing to you. To me it means a lot. I take pride in everything I do.

I am longer going to comment here as rather than having a discussion, posts appear to be aggressive. I know I do a good job. My last parents evening told me that along with the progress children make with me. Unfortunately some on here will probably never be satisfied with their child's teacher. Good luck to you and your children.

Course head teachers can see planning. They can sees anything they want.

It's the ht who deploys staff so usually if there is a problem, it is there not in the classroom.

'every single minute he's entitled to' - i just find that sad. really the underlying attitude is 'i don't give a fuck about anyone else's children, i don't give a fuck about the class as a whole or the wider agendas of education and inclusion, i don't give a fuck what else is happening, all i give a fuck about is my child getting what's their's'. yes, i do find that selfish and disturbing and massively entitled.

education - certainly state, inclusive, education CANNOT work with attitudes like that. that's probably why starlight has found it 'failed' her and her expectations.

exactly swallowedafly

cross posts. I meant swallowedafly previous post.

Oh I thought I saw some Union thing on TES that said they couldn't and also could not observe in their classrooms without notice. I admit I am sometimes wrong. There is a lot to keep up with.

Well for a start regards that is a pretty naff target as it isn't SMART and impossible to measure.

But if under a heading of aims, with aims being to reduce dependence on adult support you might have a SMART target being:

Long term Target: Tim will come into school, put his bag in the bag place, his coat on the coat hook, his lunch on the lunch on the lunch shelf and then sit on the carpet ready for registration. He will do this correctly 4 out of 5 mornings, first with adult support which is reduced over time as Tim acquires this skills.

SMART Target. Each morning TA will meet Tim and show him where to put his bag. The TA will support Tim returning to the school gate 3 times to practise this skill. Once completed Time will receive a tick on his chart for bag with a number up to 3 with 1 being achieved independently on first go, 2 being on 2nd go, and 3 being fully still requiring full prompts.

This would require a TA to be fully available to Tim as well as producing evidence of progress towards independence over time.

Once achieved you can move onto the coat, with careful supervision of the bag to ensure that the coat addition doesn't scupper it etc etc.

and you know what having a statement doesn't necessarily mean being the most needy child in the class. getting a statement requires such a level of articulacy and literacy and energy in a parent that some children will never get one because their parents are not capable of advocating loudly enough on their behalf.

Regards lesson observations are different from just wandering into a room.

I have to write out extra planning for an observation. it's just in a different format. It's totally pointless.

Head teachers do learning walks which is an official look about and can obviously come in when ever they like.

''every single minute he's entitled to' - i just find that sad. really the underlying attitude is 'i don't give a fuck about anyone else's children, i don't give a fuck about the class as a whole or the wider agendas of education and inclusion, i don't give a fuck what else is happening, all i give a fuck about is my child getting what's their's'. yes, i do find that selfish and disturbing and massively entitled.'

Actually I find the opposite is true. It is teachers with YOUR attitude who don't give a fuck about the fact that a very severely disadvantaged child who is running out of time to catch up and get enough of an education to have the best possible chance at leading as independent a life as possible.

It is YOUR attitude that it is selfish of parents to demand that having their limited and bloody hard fought for VITAL lifeline of provision not eroded because the teacher wants to use that resource for her own benefit or for the benefit of a class of children less disadvantaged, that has caused the huge fuck up of the system for children with SEN.

Starlight Don't talk to me about SMART targets!

I have had absolute headaches with trying to insist on these before. IMO some targets just cannot be SMART, they are only ever aims. The defining criteria is usually not SMART. Number is then randomly applied to completely subjective criteria.

This book is good:

www.amazon.co.uk/Proofiness-Dark-Arts-Mathematical-Deception/dp/0670022160/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380201305&sr=8-1&keywords=The+dark+art+of+mathematical+deception

'and you know what having a statement doesn't necessarily mean being the most needy child in the class. getting a statement requires such a level of articulacy and literacy and energy in a parent that some children will never get one because their parents are not capable of advocating loudly enough on their behalf.'

Oh I see. So it's only fair that once they have done that, the teachers are free to share those resources around

This is also why the system is fucked up. Why isn't the school applying for a statement anyway. Why should the parents be doing it?

what BENEFIT is it you think the teacher gets when you say 'for her own benefit'?

benefit of the teacher or benefit of the class and every child in it?

A lot of aims cannot be made finite.

There are degrees of being able to do something, being 'secure' in an ability as I think the current phrase is.

IMO no-one is ever secure, there is always opportunity to refine, refine, refine. We are learners for life.

you've named me as the reason the system is so fucked several times now. i must have more influence than i realised.

'and you know what having a statement doesn't necessarily mean being the most needy child in the class'

And why exactly does that justify punishing the child WITH the support, or their parents?

Do you really think that statementing officers write in extra unneeded provision on the basis that what that child gets is more than they need in order to enable class teachers to share it with the other kids?

Why do YOU get to be judge and jury?

Why do YOU get to break the law?

If you don't like the system tell the LA, write to your counsellor, join a consultation group, start up a lobbying group, go on strike about it, but do not, ABSOLUTELY DO NOT remove provision from a child who has been awarded it.