Teachers do not adhere to Statemented 1 to 1 support, do not believe in sub-levels, make APP assessments up....How much of what parents are told by schools about teaching is a box ticking exercise?

[Regards]

Following on from this thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/primary/1859219-Im-a-teacher-and-happy-to-answer-any-questions

and this:
community.tes.co.uk/tes_primary/f/36/t/381051.aspx?pi2132219857=1

I realised I was incredibly gullible when my DC first started school. What exactly should we believe concerning what the teachers tell us, how much is a PR job to cover up the ugly truth?

'well there's talk of squeezing and fiddling and other vague references that seem to point to 1:1 support sometimes being stretched to accommodating a bit more than just one child's needs. i appreciate from the mono focus that sounds awful but for those of us focusing on more than just our own children and knowing what it is actually like in a busy classroom it just sounds like the reality of a really stretched system being held up by adults who genuinely care about all of the children in the room that they are in.'

It sounds awful because it IS awful. The system might be stretched. Everything in the classroom might be stretched. But the child's statemented 1:1 TA CANNOT be, however much the classroom teacher would like that because that provision and entitlement is enshrined in LAW.

Why can you not get this?

It doesn't even matter if this law is entirely unreasonable. It is the LAW.

Parents expectations of adherence of the law are NOT too high ffs.

'every child can cope with that for gods sake. no child in ms school needs a person glued to their side'

This may or may not be true. Why are your expectations of a child with SEN only to cope, and not be educated though?

What on earth are your TA's doing glued to the side of a statmented child? Do you direct their work when you see that so that they can help raise the levels of the child's social or independence skills. Do you offer them more training?

Soap the 'minute counter' as you so put it can help enable a teacher to ensure a child is progressing. They only give a quantified description of what is happening and I would hope would report qualitatively too. Showing what a child is accurately receiving coupled with the child performance is the raw materials which are necessary to ensure appropriate support.

Its no good without the quantification as 5 minutes of intervention can be bigged up and exaggerated as if a child needs support on 'stand by' for the whole day. The opposite is also true, a whole day of receiving only 5 minutes support and not achieving anything can be downplayed, if the child quietly sits not disturbing anyone.

Quantitative and qualitative reporting just gives a more accurate, 360 degree perspective.

'if parents are getting their knickers in a knot because their child's ta has another child sitting at the table with them now and then who they help out a bit at the same time then no i'm afraid that is not an issue. unless the issue is the outrageous selfishness and sense of entitlement of the parent.'

A parent is SELFISH for wanting their child to receive an adequate education for which the minimum provision required to achieve this has been specified after a huge assessment to be full-time 1:1, and not have some of that time syphoned off for another child in the classroom despite the fact that their child's right to NOT have to share is written in law!?

worried Just report what you are doing / proposing. Get parents and professionals to agree.

'when your child is at home are you sat right beside them staring at them every minute'

Is that what the TAs in your classroom do? Seriously?

How many children in your class have that written in their statements?

Regards I really don't know what you are talking about.

Starlight you seem to think your child would be better served being segregated in the classroom. I think that is cruel unless there are very specific issues at play.

Soap What is not to understand? What bits do you not understand? Tell me I can elaborate.

'So how do I allow the child who has 'rely less on adult support' as a target achieve this?'

Really? This is a question you ask given you are an experienced and 'outstanding' SN teacher?

Number is applied to give a sense of scale that qualitative reporting alone just does not do.

starlight you can't say teachers don't know what they are talking about and cannot use their professional judgement and expertise, then demand that they do exactly that.

'Starlight you seem to think your child would be better served being segregated in the classroom. I think that is cruel unless there are very specific issues at play'

Absolutely not. That would be horrific. However physical inclusion is not the same thing as educational or social inclusion and should not be taken as such.

Regards The post may did not make sense to me at all. I do have flu so I may need simpler words

Then Starlight I fail to see how a ta can not interact with other children even if they are with their designated charge. I fail to see how they cannot interact if a situation occurs that is dangerous for the whole class.

Cost and time spent actively supporting are the quantitative elements in support.

Qualitative elements describe what the support actually entails.

Description of child's attainment can include a quantitative mark eg 50% achieved in a test or qualitative child can do such and such.

Reporting should show what a support a child has received as well as what they have achieved.

They can interact with whomever they like if the interaction is for the primary benefit of the development of the child they are with, or do anything else with that purpose.

ok. I don't disagree with that.

? what Soap Cross post somewhere.

so Starlight if little Jenny asks Mrs Pots the ta for a spelling or to help her with her shoe lace. Should Mrs Pots tell Jenny to go away, remind her that she is not to talk to her for any reason. Or do the very human thing of just telling her or tying her shoe.

Maybe the class teacher could build it into whole class management. 'Children if you talk to Mrs Pots you will automatically get a lunch time detention'

I was not disagreeing with you regards. I wish this had a proper reply function on it.

I'm not sure support received is important at all in quantitive terms tbh.

It is outcomes achieved, how many, how fast, how to increase number and speed of acquisition, signposts to next targets.

My ds had 6 weeks of SALT over the summer hols. Totally ineffectual professional opinion stuff with no outcomes but a staff 'perception' of progress. We should have gone instead on our cancelled holiday and worked with his interactions in playgrounds (quantifying initiations, lengths of conversations, circumstances, to inform the planning of practise sessions.

hope your flu gets better soon soap.

Friend's daughter was employed in a TA in a local primary school, as general class support. There was another child in the class with 1:1 support. School wangled it so the 1:1's contract didn't get renewed, then told friend's daughter she'd have to do the 1:1 instead as well as whole class support. For her it was a total nightmare, because he really needed support all the time but, not unreasonably, the other children who were used to coming to her for help continued to do so, and the result was that none of them got adequate help. I suggested she leave a leaflet for education solicitors in the 1:1 child's backpack.

I'm with Starlight on this, if the statement says the child gets 1:1 then that is definitely what must happen. Supporting a child in class does not mean segregating them.

Soap it is that and more. Quantifying and qualifying what the support was (within Statement if has one) that has been taken up / received by child. So if a child can have the TA 'stand by' the nature of this is reported accurately.

IEPs only usually cover 2 or 3 targets per term so are not too good at giving a 'rounded picture' of a whole school day / week / term.

starlight isn't that the whole point that the teachers here have been making?

It is the progress towards targets and the child's ability to be part of the class that are important. Not standing with a stop watch making sure that Timmy has had his one hour of support this morning.