Holiday - Exceptional Circumstances

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Okay, I know this has been done to death, but dd is about to start school next week and this topic is really stressing me out, especially given we have just had the wonderful 6 week holiday and my children have developed so much I feel they are an essential part of their childhood.

DS has ASD, and is in a special school, who are flexible to his needs and would grant any term-time holiday on the basis of his sensory issues and need for places to be less busy, with more space, less queuing and quieter etc. We've done some camping and selected sites carefully but this won't be an option until next summer.

DD is starting a mainstream primary and unless they agree to termtime holidays we won't be able to go away, or even simply visit museums etc. as a family. In fact, because ds will be at home in DD's holidays, she will never get the opportunity to go places that children from typical families get to go to.

How likely is it that the HT will authorise absences? She stated in the open evening that she NEVER authorises absences for family holidays.

What do you think she 'would' authorise an absence for that would enable us to spend time as a family on fun things and also educational things?

I think they do know, but a set list of examples will always exclude something that is reasonable but has been forgotten.

Exactly, tiggytape - it was and always has been AT THE HT's DISCRETION. Holidays were never a right, only the right to ASK was allowed and that right remains and the decision is still the HT's... and everyone is STILL confused as a result.

Parents still have every right to ask for a holiday of any length they want. The HT can still refuse it, just as the HT could in the past - the right was only to ASK, not to insist.

There is absolutely NOTHING in the legislation that says parents have no right to ask for holidays in term time - not if they can convince the HT that that particular holiday is an exceptional circumstance.

I like the idea of flexible rules. I do. I like flexibility, and I don't like black and white.

But in this case...I honestly don't think it was working very well. Something needed firming up, though it does still seem to be causing confusion (or is that just what change does??).

I guess we'll have to see how the new rules bed in, Elibean! I should imagine that at least for the first couple of years the result will be increased numbers of unauthorised absences and bad will. Then maybe people will get used to it and get more sneaky about how and when they take holidays and how long for... human nature is generally not to comply with things you really don't see the point of, and clearly too few parents understand the point of ensuring their children never miss a single day of school.

I seriously doubt people will stop leaving a couple of days early for their summer holidays to avoid the worst of the rush, for example.... or even risking a long weekend away... they might just shorten their term time holidays... better than nothing, I suppose!

But if people do keep on doing the above, they are effectively then making the choice to consciously break the rules, and once you have flouted one rule in front of your children, you've already set a bad example....

I think there always had to be special circumstances in order to justify the granting of a term time holiday - so the change relates to the difference between "special" and "exceptional" which is something for the HT to interpret at their discretion. So that's as clear as mud, then.

prh maybe i misunderstood. i thought you were saying that if parents wanted to take their children out of school that the governors might in some hypothetical way have to assess the parent's ability to teach their child. as parents have the overall responsibility to start with, i thought that was back to front! perhaps i got the wrong end of the stick?

now having said that i have no intentiom of taking my.child out of school, i am faced with a dilemma. i don't think it is exceptional circumstances but relevant to this discussion nonetheless:

ds is in reception. i have some free tickets for a children's literary event on dec 20th. this is said to be the last day of term. i have no idea whether it will be a whole or half day but the event is in the morning. what should i.do? it would be a shame to miss it

Tricot, you can ask for permission, which you probably won't get, then have it marked as unauthorised if you go.

Or you can call your child in sick.

Or you can miss it.

Up to your conscience really!

PasstheTwiglets "This won't help you with holidays but you could look into flexi-schooling to visit museums etc. You may know about it anyway but this is where your child attends school at certain times and is educated at home at other times. So you could, in theory, have one day off a week to visit museums etc."

Flexi-schooling was always hard to arrange - and until this Spetember schools were told to mark flexi-schooled kids as 'educated off-site' on flexi days, so it did not affect their attendance figures for OFSTED This has now been changed so that kids being flexi schooled have to be marked as absent when they are not in school - bad for the figures, thus bad for OFSTED, thus no school will agree to it. So although it remains a legal option, in practice it's been killed off.

Of course, if you happen to be a Pastafarian your children can have every Friday off anyway under the Religious Observance (nor counted as an absence for OFSTED) code.

As a committed Pastafarian I find it sad that these ill-thought out changes may bring many more people to the religion who are not true believers.

It's up to individual LEA's, Lampshade

I think it might be useful to repeat the official DofE guidance on using Code C (authorised absence) in the register:

"Code C (authorised absence) Schools should consider each request individually taking into account the circumstances, such as: the nature of the event for which leave is sought; the frequency of the request; whether the parent gave advance notice; and the pupil’s attainment, attendance and ability to catch up on missed schooling."

In my religion, the Wed-Friday of the weeks before half terms and the Mon-Wed of those after half terms, some days before Christmas and Easter holidays, as well as winter and summer solstice and equinox, a number of Fridays throughout the year, and selected other times are designated as exclusively to be used for reflection (including intellectual, physical and spiritual reflection) and family time.
I am concerned that some people are joining my religion only for the benefits this confers to their DC's education. I hear that this has happened to other, perhaps more well-known, religions lately ...

I think all religious people have doubts occasionally, and Rowan Williams agrees, so it must be normal.

I heard the voice of God speaking to me last night saying very clearly in a still calm voice - a voice that was so beautiful it would make you weep - at the same time deep like the rumble of the ocean and sparkling like birdsong. Anyway, God spoke to me and said that as He is totally awesome he doesn't much need us to praise him or anything. He said secretly he finds it a bit boring and embarrassing - he doesn't like a fuss. He's actually really modest, which is pretty amazing when you consider he's God. But then God should be amazing. Anyway, he says he'd have much more time to alleviate suffering and so on if he didn't have to be at so many tedious religious events where "people sing interminable songs and burn stuff" - his actual words. He says we should all relax a bit more, spend more time with our families and more time outside appreciating some of the amazing things his 'evolution' experiment has produced. He says even He doesn't even know half the insect varieties it has produced. He suggested that about a fortnight every two years out of school would be a great way to show an appreciation of him, and in the meantime if we could all just be nice and considerate to each other and behave sensibly, we'd soon notice the world being a nicer place. He said it was because he'd have more time to "sort a few things out" rather than "hanging about in old, cold buildings"

I know this to be true, because it was revealed to me by God himself, and thus it forms the basis of my belief.

tricot39 - I was responding to a suggestion from another poster that schools and parents could work around the regulations by having the school employ parents as NQTs for the duration so that the holiday could be classed as a school outing. Interesting idea but it would be a fast track to special measures for the school!

Ooh, I missed that bit prh47bridge How do you think that would work if the parents both happened to have QTS and did volunteer work within the school anyway. Just out of interest, like. Obviously.

I think if you are refused holiday and need this for real reasons eg disability of a child or inability to take holiday due to job, then I would object on 2 grounds: disability discrimination as the actions are discriminating against a disabled child and/or under human rights legislation as you have a right to a family life.

There is actually no law in this country that forces you to send a child to school. All you have to do is prove to the authorities that you are providing an appropriate education to your child. IMO if you went on holiday and could also show that a child would learn about geography, visit cultural sites etc and not just sit by a pool, I think it would be very difficult for an education authority to bring an effective case against you.

I think if you are refused holiday and need this for real reasons eg disability of a child or inability to take holiday due to job, then I would object on 2 grounds: disability discrimination as the actions are discriminating against a disabled child and/or under human rights legislation as you have a right to a family life.

There is actually no law in this country that forces you to send a child to school. All you have to do is prove to the authorities that you are providing an appropriate education to your child. IMO if you went on holiday and could also show that a child would learn about geography, visit cultural sites etc and not just sit by a pool, I think it would be very difficult for an education authority to bring an effective case against you.

I think there is a lot more potential of code B.

Educated off-site afaik means supervision by the school. But again, with proper partnership between parents and schools, this coukd be done virtually.

Again, a decent school virtual learning environment can ensure the child doesn't fall behind and the teacher doesn't have to do additional work making it easier for HT to agree.

Code B has lots of potential. And surely the above is a way around flexi-schooling too.