Holiday - Exceptional Circumstances

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Okay, I know this has been done to death, but dd is about to start school next week and this topic is really stressing me out, especially given we have just had the wonderful 6 week holiday and my children have developed so much I feel they are an essential part of their childhood.

DS has ASD, and is in a special school, who are flexible to his needs and would grant any term-time holiday on the basis of his sensory issues and need for places to be less busy, with more space, less queuing and quieter etc. We've done some camping and selected sites carefully but this won't be an option until next summer.

DD is starting a mainstream primary and unless they agree to termtime holidays we won't be able to go away, or even simply visit museums etc. as a family. In fact, because ds will be at home in DD's holidays, she will never get the opportunity to go places that children from typical families get to go to.

How likely is it that the HT will authorise absences? She stated in the open evening that she NEVER authorises absences for family holidays.

What do you think she 'would' authorise an absence for that would enable us to spend time as a family on fun things and also educational things?

[Lethologica]

Sorry for the typos.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Cakes, we had a carers assessment. We were refused respite on the basis that Dh gets annual leave and should use it for respite. Which is why he can't easily take dd away on her own as that further reduces the limited time his and school holidays coincide.

So doing these things ARE for dd's benefit as she woukdn't access them otherwise and actually, a few days off school with me when DS is not would be respite for her.

[Gobbolinothewitchscat]

I'm just playing devil's advocate here - I could see the HT saying well why don't you take DD to a museum and for lunch out on a Saturday for quality time whilst your DH looks after DS? I think you need to think how to respond to that etc

I think what the head teacher will want to see is flexibility and also an acknowledgement that DS' needs shouldn't necessarily trump those of DD. For example, he could be taken out of school etc to fit round DD's schedule as well

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Thanks. Yes he could be taken out of school, but she would have to be too, because she doesn't have any holidays when he is at school. And that wouldn't solve the issue about the places not being busy.

In terms of being able to go 'somewhere' in the country. That is possible sometimes, but this is really where we are thinking of DD. Why can't we take her somewhere SHE is interested in. We, as much as we can try to teach ds the lessons of consideration for others iyswim. They are very close.

[Lethologica]

Your sons school is flexible but your daughters isn't, so you need to take any family holidays during your daughters holidays. You can plan 'less busy' holidays which would still be fun for any primary aged child.

Your DD won't really have any preferences about what type of holiday she goes on as long as you are all happy and enthusiastic about it. We never took our kids to theme parks when they were young and I don't think they felt deprived.

[jamtoast12]

Ask your head.. Our head only today said he's perfectly happy to authorise up to two weeks for holidays if attendance is otherwise ok.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

I can't take them to the specific things we are doing at home that follows the kids interests.

I don't want a 'less busy' day in it's generic form. I want it in it's specific form, for example Polygons at the science museum, or pumpkin choosing at a local farm. These have meaning for our family and specifically DD.

She very definitely DOES have preferences though, and she follows her DB's interests and her self-esteem is embedded in her ability to name Jupiters moons for example, in order to name her dolls after them. She doesn't understand about ds' ASD and judges herself by his standards and knowledge, but she prides herself enormously on this.

The HT made it clear more than once that she doesn't authorise absences. I haven't asked her specifically about our situation though.

[ModeratelyObvious]

Showy, I think it's worth you asking re the wedding.

[asandwichshort]

There are no specific guidelines in place as yet as to what "exceptional circumstances" are. Our ht says she will authorise hols for 1 day family weddings or graduations and also if you can show proof ie from employer that you or your partner cannot take hols in school holidays - these she would class as exceptional circumstances.

[NoMoreWasabi]

You can but ask. However you need to temper your expectations particularly when she is of compulsory school age. If she had 14% absence which was mainly family days/holidays you cannot realistically expect to get that much. And I can?t see that a HT is going to see pumpkin choosing, as important to your family as it may be, being something to authorise absence for under the new regime.

[morethanpotatoprints]

Most people I know are taking the time off as illness as they know the head won't agree. Also if you ask and the answer is no, then they will know then if you take the time out, you could even get fined.

[Listentomum]

86% not be considered good school attendance. Infect in many schools it would be cause to monitor and set measures to improve.

I sympathise and understand somewhat how it is for your family having grown up with a siblings who's special needs impacted upon what we could do together as a family.

It may be a better option to look into respite for such activities for holidays and weekends or you and DH take it in turns to support dd on trips etc. not ideal but I feel better than missing 15% of her school year to do so.

[teacherwith2kids]

Just to say to those who are reporting 'holiday' as 'sick' - if it is obvious that this has happened e.g.
'Are you better, Johnny?' (asked while taking the register on their first day back)
'Er....'
'Oh, so did you have a nice time away?'
'Oh yes, we went with my Gran to Haven'

then I - and all the teachers I know - now code that as unuathorised regardless of whether the parents have rung the child in 'sick', because it has become more prevalent of late.

[StarlightMcKenzie]

Missing 15% of school isn't the same thing as missing 15% of her education and so far she is performing extremely well.

I understand how the policy makes things difficult for HT, and how it is supposed to offer protection to disadvantaged groups but it really stuffs up our family life and that is an vital aspect of childhood.

[Listentomum]

Well I would say it is actually that is almost one day a fortnight isn't it. Most children do not go an educational trip every fortnight with their families do they? Well none I know anyway.

I think you would be better in seeking to come up with an arrangement where you home educate for one day a week. The problem is although your daughter is doing well, another child given similar home circumstances may not be doing so well and therefore, therefore it is better to have blanket rules for holidays and absences so not to disadvantage others. That's why it is better to request to come to an agreement to home educate her on certain days.

[teacherwith2kids]

The thing is, the type of thing that you describe - e.g. special events on at child-friendly places like museums - aren't usually running on school days during term time (I know this as an ex HEer). So what you want - to be able to take your daughter out of school to do child-friendly events that she is interested in - may not be practicable anyway.

What I understand that you are asking for is:

• Your DD to be out of school for holidays but not to do the things that you want to do as a family because this is made impossible by your DS's needs.
  
• For her also to be out of school on days when you are taking your DS to places he and she would be interested in, because he needs to go on specific days.
  
• ? For her to be taken out on her own to go to things without your DS so that she can experience some of the things that only she is interested in? I'm less clear about this one, apologies if I have misunderstood.
  

Are you a lone parent? Is there any way in which you can split things so that e.g. you can take DS to places when he can cope with them, during the school week, and then take DD to the same thing at a weekend / school holiday? I appreciate that you WANT to take them together - I have children who are close and I understand that you would want to take them together, but even in our "normal" family that often isn't possible and we end up doing things by turns.

Is there any way that a compromise could be reached e.g. you accommodate as many as possible of your needs through e.g. doing things in pairs, doing them once with each child etc and then, when that is genuinely impossible, asking the school for those specific occasions?

A school is likely to look more favourably at 'well, usually we manage like this, and we've not done X and Y because DD is in school, but we are asking to take her out for this one special thing because a) it is particularly vital / interesting, b) it is only available on this day and c) we are unable to accommodate it in any other way'. Much better that than a blanket 'we want to take her out whenever we feel that we want to'.

[muchadoaboutsomething]

I know very little about schooling, but do also bear in mind that your dd is covered by the disability provisions of the Equality Act. As such the school needs to make reasonable adjustments because of he association with her disabled brother. As such for some issues if you think of it in the language of reasonable adjustments and levelling the playing field it may help?

[teacherwith2kids]

(I think it's the line in your OP 'she will never be able to go to places that other children go to' that I'm not quite understanding. She can go at weekends or school holidays. Not with her brother, I know, but she can go, as long as you have suitable care available for him while you take her (which is why i asked whether you were a lone parent as the logistics are harder then). She, and you, might prefer you to all go together, but your wish to go all together shouldn't be a completely over-riding factor. it sounds a bit as if you are saying 'We all go together, or she won't go at all' - which sounds a little punitive / absolutist)

[teacherwith2kids]

X-posted - yes, I think that that 'reasonable adjustment' line could be very useful both ways. A reasonable adjustment in the form of a half-day absence from school to see e.g. a short-lived and very popular exhibition might well be viewed as reasonable, whereas a blanket permission to take your DD out whenever you fancies a day together as a family may well not be. it's finding that compromise.

[cathpip]

Show of hands, a wedding is fine, my ds has just been authorised time off to go to my dads wedding, it's on a Tuesday and a 5 hour drive away so we are travelling the day before and the day after.

[tricot39]

I havent managed to read the whole thread but the holiday rules really annoy me. given that noone really likes this and as politicians need our vote has anyone tried raising one of those online petitions to get this silly rule changed?

[prh47bridge]

cathpip - The decision is up to the head teacher. There is no national standard to follow. Just because you've been authorised time off for a wedding does not mean another child at a different school will be authorised.

tricot39 - Which silly rule? Do you think parents should be allowed to take children out of school whenever they feel like it? Or do you want something else?

[afussyphase]

I agree with tricot.
Here's what I would envision. It should be more flexible than it is, and there should be appropriate targeting - eg if DC are not being educated due to persistent truancy, action should be taken to address this persistent truancy and protect the DC involved. If DC's education is proceeding just fine and they are visiting elderly/disabled/very long distance relatives, going on holiday when parents' jobs permit and so on, where there is NO persistent truancy and no risk to their education; if they are only missing the movies+golden time day to do something educational: flexibility and no penalty. No contribution of attendance to Ofsted reports other than a review of the appropriateness of the leave taken, eg documentation of what it was and the reason given; little to no harm to DC's education or a benefit to their education, eg of being able to travel where they otherwise would not, and the educational benefits of travel.
And I would be more than happy to sign a petition, write letters, do research on the benefits of a happy family life and time spent together over the benefits of staying for every last school session, especially every last party bag and film shown in the last week before holidays. Very happy.
Finally -- putting attendance in the Ofsted creates problems. It encourages parents to tell DC to lie, undermining schools' authority and putting DC in a bad position, weakening their relationship with their teachers. It makes schools accountable for something they essentially cannot control. It creates market pressures such that holiday costs vary by a factor of 2-5 from the week before to the week of half term. This results in many, many DC being denied opportunities for family time/ holidays /travel that they would otherwise benefit from. No one counts these negatives. If they did, no doubt they would find that term time holidays have some positives as well as the often-stated negatives.

[prh47bridge]

There has already been a lot of research into this absences from school. This has shown that it is often the better off families that claim they cannot afford to take holidays during the school holidays. The research has also shown that children find it difficult to catch up with the work they have missed and often never catch up completely, and that 17 days absence (even if it is spread out) can lead to a drop of one grade at GCSE.

There is still some flexibility in the current system if the school is willing to exercise it. They can authorise absences in exceptional circumstances. There was no right to take children out of school for 10 days holiday a year prior to the recent changes despite the fact that many people seem to believe there was.

Each year there are 190 school days and 175 non-school days. So that is nearly half the year you have to spend time together. Is that really not enough to establish a happy family life?

[exexpat]

I'd be interested to read the research - 17 days over what period? If it's just during the GCSE year or during years 10 and 11 combined, I suppose that is possible, and I think most people would realise that term-time holidays in the run-up to important exams are a bad idea, but this thread is talking about up to a week or two off in the early years of primary school. I find it hard to believe that occasional absences in primary school can have that much impact if a child is generally progressing normally.

DS (now yr 11) has had a whole year's less schooling than everyone in his class - he started school at age 5 rather than four - plus quite a few absences in primary school (to do with holidays as well as his father dying and us moving countries); he also spent the first three years with a different curriculum and half in a different language - it doesn't seem to have held him back at all.