6 year old DD being bullied ... help with next steps?

[OohMrDarcy]

Copied from Bullying topic after advice it is busier here... apologies in advance, its long! :

Hi all

DD is 6 (Y1) and quite sensitive. Normally a very confident girl except around bad behaviours. She often struggled in reception with how to handle 'naughty' children. We made a lot of progress with her, teaching her that she didn't have to do what they said, that she didn't have to play with naughty people and that she should tell the teacher when certain things happened.

This year there is a new 'naughty' child in her class.... I use inverted commas as I have no idea if he has any SEN but has been very disruptive in class all year. DD has regularly mentioned him since the start of the year as in X pushed Y today, X got put on the sad face today etc etc (she is a right little gossip - I don't ask for this information)

Over the last few weeks - month, it seems that X has become focussed on DD in his behaviours... every playtime / lunchtime he seems to be actively seeking her out and pushing her over or chasing her, kicking her etc. I mentioned it to the teacher a few weeks ago, then again a week later when it didn't seem to have stopped.

Then DD started to get more upset by it - not sleeping well (waking up having nightmares that he had chased her), being a nightmare in the morning as she didn't want to go to school (she LOVES school) spending her weekends saying she had tummyache or felt sick (only when left to play for a while, it was clearly through worry)

so I spoke to the teacher again, she promised she was working with both DD and the boy to try and sort it, that weekend - more worrrying, more stories, more sadness, so I sent a note in with her yesterday morning (DH was dropping off) explaining things DD had said eg:

X is bullying me isn't he mum? (I hadn't used that word with her at all)
X won't ever stop hurting me
I have to play behind the shed at school or X can find me (heartbreaking)

I left my phone number in the note and asked for a meeting or phone call, saying when I was available.

I didn't hear anything. Talked to DD about it in the evening (I always keep it lighthearted and she outpours the information) It seems she spoke to her teacher herself and said she thought he was bullying her, and it seems teacher agreed. She has been told she can have access to the head or deputy whenever she feels she wants to talk about it. She has a TA checking on her after each playtime, and X is generally told off / sent to the deputy head to talk each time.

so - in my opinion what the school are doing re-actively seems to be right. However, I am not aware of anything they are doing to proactively stop him from chasing / hurting my DD

X apparently spent most of yesterday trying to kick her in the head (!)

DH and I agreed we needed to up the anti and sort this sharpish as DD being really affected by it now. I am expecting a phonecall from her teacher today (I am guessing at lunchtime) so what I am asking is what I can realistically expect the school to do in these days of inclusion policies?

I have a copy of the anti-bullying policy and I can see where I think we are in the process, but what happens next is very fluffy - being an infant school I guess they shouldn't have much cause for using it!

Any help / advice would be appreciated!

I completely understand that I have no right to know anything about the boy. I ended up ringing the school towards the end of lunch and speaking to teacher

we have next steps which I am glad of, but lors of little bits of the conversation are making me cross the more I think of them, eg

hinting that DD shouldn't play with a girl that X likes so he doesn't get jealous
all but saying DD should change her behaviours as it will be easier for them than changing X

I am not happy about these, and will be brining it up with teacher tomorrow, I see it that its almost enabling the bullying boy!

so more talks happening, if it is still a problem next week then head teacher is getting involved

I think you are handling currently as well as can be expected.

Now, well, you need a plan. You need pen and paper. Every question you think of write down no matter how small, then review later together with DP. Choose most VIP ones to talk about with school.

Immediate guesses;
How will dd be watched over? How will X?
How /which behaviours will be dealt with by teacher if shown by x?
Has this been told to x parents?
How will dd be supported?
Anyone else at risk of x?
How will u inform us of progress?
How will we review success or not?
Next steps?
Potential changes eg someone moves class?
How do we explain plan to dd?

Sure you have more.... Write it so you don't forget one, think clearly, discuss all, can answer poor dd. wishing her hugs and you luck.

Yeah dislike the sounds of that conversation too... Dd is not guilty and shouldn't be made to feel that way.

Possibly id actually be confirming every conversation in writing after and ccing head/govs. Up to you. I'd def want to know who does know and why and what updates they are given.

thankyou Dacky, that is exactly the sort of stuff I needed!

Ok - so to expand on a couple of bits - with the hints that DD should change behaviours etc

what was actually said was - I asked what could be done to proactively protect DD from being hurt again, and was told basically its hard to keep them apart at playtime (reasonably large infants - 3 form intake, 240 ish kids)

I do know we have a next step for if it continues after this week , head teacher has said she will get involved

I am at the point now where if it happens again, I want to teach her to physically push him away from her... I know that is the wrong thing completely, but how long should she put up with this and the reactive response before she is ok to fight back?

Teacher did tell me that they aren't in the same class next year (the swap around every year thank god!) so am relieved about that, but there is still 6 weeks or so until the end of term!

X was off school today and I have to say the difference in her was amazing, chatting normally about school etc - until DS went to bed anyway when she started talking about it non stop again

I would be asking who supervises them at lunch/break times and do they have an incident book to fill in which is then reported back to the class teacher.

My DS was bullied very badly at the start of yr2 (he is now in yr3) and the school were v good at sorting it out.

If you get no where with the class teacher I would be going to the KS1 head and then the deputy or HT.

They should (the school) have sanctions in place (lose golden time, lose minutes of play time, thinking chair/area etc) in place to help deal with this.

I wouldn't be phoning anybody or waiting for anybody to phone me. I'd be standing in the head's office with my daughter and refusing to remove either her or me until she sorted the matter out permanently.

Log everything. If you don't get action and resolution, write to the governors.

my DD was in a similar position. You have to tell her that bullies are cowards and they only 'go for' those who cant stand up for themselves.

Now my DD understood this, but had trouble translating it to her situation.

I asked her to make 'stand up for' others that the bully was picking on, and if they... as 6 years olds, stood up... TOGETHER... he would find someone who was easier.

Now i'm not saying that the bully shouldnt be tackled about their behaviour... I'm just saying that MY DD felt EMPOWERED.

she took control over the bully... and made loads of new friends too.

HTH

If a boy spent a whole day trying to kick my daughter in the head I wouldn't be talking to anybody about anything.

FGS Learn and say how do your comments help the OP? shouting loudly does not mean that you will get the right result. FWIW OP I think the school are doing the right things. the only thing i would add is to keep a log of any incidents and also to focus on what has actually happened rather than what your dd thinks might happen. This is important of you are to see whether situation has improved or not.

your poor DD. She hasn't done anything wrong and she should not have to change anything about who she plays with or how she plays. If X is this much trouble then he needs to be supervised separately at play time. that no doubt affects his personal rights and so on BUT he is at the end of the day the one causing the problems whether he has SEN or not. There are plenty of children who are ASD and CAN be a problem but who are successfully learning to manage their behaviour or being prevented from having the ability to cause trouble by proper supervision.

wow - this was certainly the right area to post in the end, thanks everyone!

Firstly, learnandsay - I see what you are saying, but I don't feel it would help our situation - I am not one to shout and be aggressive to make my point, I don't want to be 'that' mum - I do want to work with the school to make the right plans so this is sorted long term.

Simpson - there are sanctions in place, DD has told me he regularly loses minutes of playtime or has to go to work with the deputy head for a while. These seem to be having no effect whatsoever.

I hoped to be able to talk to the teacher again today but she was going on a maths course during the day (had a vague recollection of this) so wrote a note in advance and gave her that instead when she said she couldn't.

In it I have said the following roughly :

Spoke to DD about it all again, she confirms there is an incident every day, not only when she is playing with Y (something the teacher mentioned as she thought it might be jealousy)
discussed that DD isn't always telling the teacher, and why that is - she sometimes feels scared to say infront of X - have asked her what would help, she suggested making a cool card (anything for one of them!) to be able to show teacher and mean she wanted to talk in the corridoor... what does teacher think?

Have said we aren't happy at suggestion she should change who she plays with or her behaviours in order to resolve this - she is doing nothing wrong. It would reinforce the bullys behaviours and teach her to bow to what a bully wants to avoid being hurt - not good long term

I have said the school need to find a way to proactively protect DD from harm and if they can't, then we will be teaching her physical techniques to be able to protect herself, and we are sure the school don't want that to happen as much as we don't

saw the boy today on the way in to school.... he walked past and then stayed alongside DD just staring at her, not in a menacing way - just... weird. DD was clearly scared, cowering against me going 'thats him mummy'

Took all my willpower to not do a PA 'its ok he won't hurt you whilst I am here' loud enough for his mum to hear... instead I just cuddled her and said 'its ok - don't worry' - his mum called him and he walked off after maybe 15 seconds.... not nice

I think you need to ensure they draw up an action plan and ask for a face-to-face or phone meeting every week until it is resolved. Also plan a review for the end Sep. I don't think the school is taking this seriously enough at present - it all seems to be about your DD's problem rather than the root cause.

I have no idea who "that" mum is. But if the Incredible Hulk tried to kick my daughter in the head I'd sort him out too.

One other point - have the school alerted the boy's parents? They are sometimes slow to do so but that can often yield immediate results.

I like the idea of a regular face to face / phone meeting until we are happy that it is resolved... will say that next time

I think they are taking it seriously now, but weren't until this week. I think they are hoping for the 'easy' way out- they know DD is pretty mature and could understand / follow what is suggested, though I think it is the wrong things to suggest and have said so.

i don't know if the boys parents know - I believe they must know something as he has had problems all year, but I don't know if they know about this - again, will ask

learnandsay - I don't mean to offend, so if I have I apologise... one thing I am being sure to consider is that a 6 year olds version of trying to kick someone in the head is probably very different to mine. Much as I know DD was scared, I also know that he probably had no chance of actually causing injury.

I'm not offended. I think people should say what they mean and that way everything gets said.

Hi OohMrDarcy:

First off I'm so sorry to hear of your DDs troubles at school with this particularly DC but I think you are being incredible - you're trying to be calm, you're going away and reflecting on things that upset/ trouble you about the situation/ what the school are saying and you're seeking advice.

One thing I would say is you have to decide what boundaries you are comfortable with.

For example:

He hits her, but the school immediately deals with it - is that o.k.?
He hits her, but the school does nothing - is that a problem for you?

try to think through that kind of stuff...

When is it a huge problem:

She's coming home bruised?
She's unhappy to go to school?
She's losing interest in school work?
She's becoming quiet and shy?
She's obviously frightened to attend school?
She's coming home with major injuries?

I think that you need the school to be clear about what the boundaries are for you in this situation - and ascertain whether the school will support you in this. What will they do if he causes a black eye? Causes bleeding? Causes serious injuries? As a parent you need to understand what risk assessment they have in place for your DDs safety?

Ultimately, you can approach LEA for transfer due to chronic bullying - you just need to be clear when you've reached that point. (keeping a log of this/ records of e-mails regarding situation/ etc... - will help if you ultimately need to approach LEA on this).

I know that sometimes you just want to hope it gets better - there are only 6 weeks left this school year, she'll be in a different class and have different play times next year - but what is the school's plan for the year after that (Y6)?

This is affecting her attitude toward attending school, possibly also her achievement as a student. The school should have strategies to protect her, as much as to help the bully cope with whatever his issues might be.

For example, would a solution be that she is allowed to go and read quietly in the library during breaks, if he is being particularly difficult that day? (thereby removing herself from the difficult/ upsetting situation).

Would a solution be for the school to put him on some form of warning system and to exclude him from breaks if he persists in harming your DD and/or other children?

I'm not sure what the solutions are (not knowing all the fine detail) but I would certainly want to understand that the school is exploring such options on behalf of both children, as a parent.

HTH

Have you ask your school for a copy of their bully policy (should be on the school website).

I would also speak to the head teacher as well as you have now spoken to your dd teacher and things aren't improving.

Go and see the head and insist that he is kept in at playtimes and kept away from dd the rest of the time.

It is him that is the problem, not her.

thanks again all,

pastsellbydate - thankyou it is reassuring that you feel I am doing the right things - I always question myself in these situations!

with regards to your questions / examples

The first example is what happens at the moment, ie - he hurts her, they deal with it (generally after break) I was fine with that for a while, but am at the point now where it is clearly not helping long term and want something proactive done now as there are more effects eg - DD not wanting to go to school, not being herself etc

She hasn't come home with any more than scratches (from being pushed into a tree) etc - but when it is repetitive every day it is enough... if there was something more I would be straight to the head as it would clearly be escalating. Next year they will be in a different class, but playtimes are the same still I think so there is potential for the issue to continue.

The school are really trying to help her feel positive about wanting to come, they have given her a special job for the rest of the term which normally only goes to the best behaved each day, she got 'star of the week' last week - but when she is scared that she will be hurt each day it doesn't help much does it.... god I am tearing up here- it breaks my heart seeing her like this, she is so well behaved (at school anyway) so polite, considerate of others, she doesn't deserve this....

The solution about a warning / exclusion from play is basically the one I am after - they have already said it is hard to keep him away at playtime so if they can't keep her safe with him out there, he needs to be removed - I can't think of anything else which will help tbh

Wheredidiputit - I have a copy of the antibullying policy - it is very good but doesn't say much tbh - other than in the case of a persistant problem with a child the parents will be called in and both sets of parents advised.... I haven't been told so can only assume this hasn't happened yet - I will be asking for this

Hully- that is my plan for next week if it continues as have already been told the head will get involved then

OohMrDarcy:

I think you're being sensible and having just realised your DD is in Y1 and not Y4 - I think you're being amazingly calm about this. I somehow read your '6' as '8' year old this morning.

Anyway - what I would suggest is you ask the Head simply what she proposes to do.

You can't continue like this, it really is unacceptable.

You're DD is a good pupil and wants to come to school to learn is a safe and supportive environment, but continued bullying from this boy is turning her off coming to school and she is frightened for her safety. What measures are the school going to put into place to protect your 6 year old daughter who cannot defend herself against the repeated bullying and physical attacks of this boy?

If they have a sensible suggestion which is worth a try, then give them that chance. [Try that old nutshell: "I'd hate to feel the only solution to this is to transfer DD to another school, but I am deeply concerned to see no substantial improvement in this boys behaviour toward my DD"].

If they don't, then OohMrDarcy, I'd ring the LEA for advice:

first: because having rung the LEA myself, they're usually very helpful and well aware of best practice. It's likely they'll have good advice for you.

second: it will get back to the school. Odd how that motivates people. (I rang LEA because DD1 (then age 7) was coming home with blood down her clothes and shredded elbows because she was repeatedly having to sit against a wall to write. Low and behold an hour later I had an e-mail from the head confirming DD1 would be allocated a chair for 'Big Writing' so she could write freely).

third: at worst, you can find out how to transfer schools and the LEA can explain the process to you. Transferring due to bullying is entirely allowed and the LEA will support you through this.

HTH

Thanks again, will see what tomorrow brings (as I do pickup) and if needed head straight around to the office for an appt with the head

Another day, another incident!

Today she came out with a 'head injury' note

seems x threw a stone at her and hit / cut her head..., luckily deputy head was covering class this afternoon, DH went straight back asking what it was about.... she didn't name names but said she knew who it was and wanted to get us in to discuss next steps - I will be ringing school first thing for an appt....!