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If your child asks you how to spell something...

142 replies

Fluffymonster · 05/06/2013 18:00

I was in a school-based reading/writing session with my dd today, which involved reading a book with her, then her writing three sentences to summarise the story.

The teacher mentioned at the start not to worry too much about spelling etc. as long as they get the sounds right. Fair enough.

In working out the sentences though, dd was suddenly unsure of how to spell "woman" as WOMAN or WOMUN and asked me which it was. She got the WO bit correct, and then for the rest, I said "when you say "man", is it muh-ah-nnn, or muh-uh-nnn?" She then worked it out.

I also pointed out to her that she had written "g" backwards a couple of times, and reminded her that "g" and "y" sits on the line, with their 'tails' hanging down below. They were 'floating', which she does habitually. In general her writing is good - neat, good spelling, good spacing of the letters, letters fairly even in size. So I was giving her constructive feedback on areas she could easily improve on, I thought.

At the end the teacher came over and had a look, and asked dd if she did it by herself, or if mummy helped her. Dd said she had a bit of help from me, so I explained where I had given my input. The teacher reiterated not to worry too much about spelling as it's far more important that they get the sounds right. Slightly slapped wrist I felt.

Well, I know, but I didn't just give her the answer, I prompted her to sound it out - was I wrong to even 'prompt'?

So next time do I just shrug, even if dd's asking me a question? I have to say if she spells something incorrectly and I'm sat there, I can imagine myself getting the urge to do what I did again - why is it not the done thing? And with the letters sitting on the line - well, it's practice isn't it, if she's not reminded to look at the position of the letters, how is she going to learn to remember?

OP posts:
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mrz · 08/06/2013 06:33

learnandsay the /schwa/ is the most common vowel sound in the English language www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/pron/features/schwa/

more a /uh/ than an /er/

learnandsay · 08/06/2013 06:47

I was referring to the i sound in women and silent letters.

learnandsay · 08/06/2013 06:48

I think George Bernard Shaw put his finger on it with fish spelled ghoti

mrz · 08/06/2013 06:48

All letters are silent learnandsay ...they are just symbols on a page

learnandsay · 08/06/2013 06:52

That's not what people mean when they say silent letters. All words are invisible too, if the book they're in is closed. All words are Russian too, when they're written in Russian. We can all play pointless semantic games.

mrz · 08/06/2013 07:04

However phonics doesn't use the term "silent letters" learnandsay

"I think George Bernard Shaw put his finger on it with fish spelled ghoti" oh dear another myth ... it wasn't Shaw because presumably as a writer Shaw would know that the letters never represent the sound /f/ at the beginning of a word and only represent /sh/ as part of a suffix.

learnandsay · 08/06/2013 07:20

I think it's supposed to be funny, mrz. The English language has plenty of exceptions and now ghoti is just another one of them.

learnandsay · 08/06/2013 07:24

As you'll know, writers are constantly introducing new terms to the English language.

mrz · 08/06/2013 07:35

However the spelling "ghoti" was used in print in 1855 before Shaw was even born

learnandsay · 08/06/2013 07:46

The antedating is fascinating for people who interest themselves in such things, and by all accounts several such people exist, but it doesn't change Shaw's point if he borrowed the word or invented it.

MummaBubba123 · 08/06/2013 07:47

Mrz
Oh no she didn't!
Lolling

mrz · 08/06/2013 07:51

I'm afraid there is no evidence to show that Shaw ever used the spelling "ghoti" it is one of those myths some people like to churn out in arguments.

mrz · 08/06/2013 07:54

Who didn't MummaBubba?

SanityClause · 08/06/2013 08:13

OKay, I'm a bit confused, now.

I wouldn't pronounce The o in woman the same as the o in son (which I say to rhyme with sun). I don't say "wuhman" and I don't know anyone who does.

I pronounce it with a short oo sound, as in book, rather than in boot.

Surely, there are just some words in English which have phonetic rules all of their own. Said is another one. What other English word uses the ai combination to say a short e?

SanityClause · 08/06/2013 08:20

Incidentally, OP, I always get my DC to have a go at spelling a word, and if it's wrong, I correct them. I would never let them get the spelling of a word wrong if they asked me how to spell it. Surely the point of writing is communication, which will always be more effective if one can be unambiguous.

mrz · 08/06/2013 08:22

"What other English word uses the ai combination to say a short e?" again, bargain

and can represent the same sound book/ put (or do you say poot?)

There are very few words with "unique" spellings as already mentioned women and of are common examples.

learnandsay · 08/06/2013 08:24

It depends on what you call evidence. A story exists which explains what Shaw did and how he did it. That's evidence. Whether or not you believe the story is true or not is up to you.

mrz · 08/06/2013 08:25

"What other English word uses the ai combination to say a short e?" again

and can represent the same sound book/ put (or do you say poot?)

There are very few words with "unique" spellings as already mentioned women and of are common examples.

mrz · 08/06/2013 08:29

Actually there has been lots of research learnandsay, much of it carried out by Shavian society that can find no evidence whatsoever that Shaw ever used the word. The myth arose from a very unreliable source but has been perpetuated because people do find it funny

learnandsay · 08/06/2013 08:33

And because people know who Shaw was. But it's difficult to prove that something didn't happen. The source states that Saw would write the word ghoti down and ask people to pronounce it. How is it possible to prove that Shaw never in fact did this? I don't think it is. He may indeed have done that.

mrz · 08/06/2013 08:39

I could say that learnandsay is an expert in phonics and people could repeat that but does it make it true/ NO!

mrz · 08/06/2013 08:40

languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=81

LindyHemming · 08/06/2013 08:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

learnandsay · 08/06/2013 08:43

antedating again. It doesn't prove how Shaw Behaved or didn't behave.

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