Should school have contacted DS's sports coach about an incident that took place at school?

[ptangyangkipperbang]

DS aged 8 got into a fight at school. It was over with in a few mins, the boys made up and they missed a playtime and had to write about the incident at lunchtime. I thought it had all been dealt with and supported the school by talking to DS about making the right choices, etc, etc.

A week later the boys went to judo and were called over by the coach who talked to them about their behaviour as one of them had mentioned a judo throw had been used when they were fighting.

It turns out that without asking permission from parents the school had contacted the judo coach to ask him to 'tell them off'. The school have a relationship with the coach because he'd run an after school club there in the past so he'd been put in a difficult position.

1. Can the school contact an outside body without a parents permission? (Excluding child protection)

1. Can the school 'sub-contract' discipline?

1. Have the school over reacted?

1. AIBU to be really cross?!

Any comments gratefully received as I'm a bit open mouthed about it all.

I can say with confidence the average teacher knows nothing about judo so is obliged to err on the side of caution.

Two eight year olds fighting is very unlikely to be considered a risk of significant harm and talking to the parents and children involved would remove the risk of any harm

This is what makes me think you don't know a lot about Judo, mrz.

I also think that the judo coach talking to the children involved would be more effective in removing the risk of harm, and that the school acted wisely in using it's relationship with the coach to enable this.

All in all, with the 'guidance' being so woolly, I'm no lawyer but I'd say the school had a good defence.

But hopefully, the OP has realised this and calmed down by now.

No Growlithe it tells you that I know more about what is considered a significant risk under CP guidance than you do ...

Tell us what you know then, mrz. No 'probably', no documents obtained from the internet. Tell us exactly what would happen to this school, under what law, and with what penalty.

We are all ears... I ll run it past DP and he see if you both agree.

I have not seen where Mrz or anyone else on here has said using a judo throw at school is ok, the question was around whether the school should have disclosed information about children, naming them, to a third party.

The answer is absolutely NOT and I could ask everyone else I know who is a teacher or childcare professional and would be really surprised if they said any different.

The OP was not over reacting but felt cross at the time, I think there are other people on this thread that are over reacting though. I did judo for 15 years and was a black belt, it is a big deal to practice judo outside of the class but that does not mean the school acted incorrectly.

I think this is getting a bit silly now.

If you teach your child to fight..they will fight

< runs off>

Well on the evidence of what you have posted about your DP FS I very much doubt that would be the case.
and no Growlithe my knowledge of Child Protection isn't from the internet ...

Come on then mrz, tell us. What is the law that has been broken, and what would be the penalty to the school? Or would it be an individual that was prosecuted?

MrsMelons, mrz posted earlier that she didn't think two eight year olds fighting (and we are talking about te use of judo throws in this fight on this thread) constituted a risk of significant harm.

Ah so you are avoiding commenting on what should happen. Well its good that other people actually deal with this type of thing as part of their job.... So are you commenting?

Or not?

Perhaps you can ask your husband what actually constitutes "risk of significant harm" under child protection terms SF

I think it is the significant harm part that is confusing, punching someone in the face could cause significant harm, as could a leather football in the face (my friends DD had her nose broken in a playground accident of that kind) but does not necessarily mean it is something that staff should break their confidentiality agreement over thats all.

I would BTW be absolutely livid with DS if he used judo at school but I would expect the school to tell me and I would speak to the judo instructor myself!

Or perhaps we are asking the person who has been commenting on the law throughout the thread.

I think the school should consider apologising to the OP for breach of common law confidentiality and refrain in future from involving third parties ... and that you should be more cautious in what you say about your husband on a thread with at least one journalist hanging on every word.

What's the definition of 'common law confidentiality'? What is the penalty for a breach?

I think that the school is overstepping its responsibilities by taking it upon itself to decide that it could breach its own confidentiality rules in what was really quite a minor disciplinary issue.

Would it be okay if a school caught a pupil stealing and decided to warn the local shop?

That's a different scenario Worry. Here, they let the person who has had a professional relationship with the school, and is teaching them judo (the moves and the self control which goes hand-in-hand), know that part of the training is not working and is therefore causing risk within the school.

I'm sure you can find it on the DFE website if you want to look Growlithe

mrz you are allowed to say you don't actually know the answer. Just don't round on other teachers' actions and accuse them of breaking the law when not fully abreast of the facts yourself.

I don't personally need to know the answer because I don't work in a childcare setting, and as a parent, in this situation, I wouldn't dream of being in any way annoyed with a school for taking this particular course of action.

I have a long background in martial arts (some judo, but mainly jiu jitsu) and I would say it absolutely is appropriate that the sensei (coach) is contacted and asked to have a word.

Strictly speaking, if I was the school, I would not have named the boys but said 'some boys in the judo class have used their training outside the dojo in an inappropriate manner' and have the sensei talk to the whole class/club about this.

It is essential that a sensei/coach in any martial art knows if their students are using their training inapropriately. It's not about punishment but assessing whether those students are mature enough to handle the next level of training. When I taught adult students I'd have felt the same about anybody I heard had been in a bar or street fight.

The school did the right thing. I am surprised anyone can take issue with that.

Honestly, MN sometimes is like Jeremy Kyle for the middle classes.

Unlike you, I do work in education and in child protection and as a parent I would be asking the school why the felt they had the right to pass on information to a Judo coach Growlithe ...

I know you work in education and child protection mrz. You keep telling us. But that is all you are telling us.

Mrz - I think the question asked repeatedly is exactly what law was broken? The school felt it was right to pass on the info and did so.