Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Stop Schools Cheating Please

452 replies

twiggles · 20/01/2013 11:17

Whatever your child is like, some primary schools and nurseries are pretending children start off at the low end, so they can pretend to inspectors of private and state schools that the child has developed only because of their teaching. If your child's advanced , some schools in rich areas take it out on the child. They won't bother giving the child attention, because the child's advanced, so they let the child coast downwards. But they give reports in writing about the child that pretend the child has started off at a low point in development and then got much better because of the teaching at the school....when the fact is the child was able to read or write when the child started at the school and as the school is giving the child little attention, the child has coasted downwards. Tha's what many schools do so they can pretend they've developed everything in the child, they want all children to be the same standard, like a photocopier. Poor children. Some teachers admit they're cheating and don't take the reports seriously and write them to impress inspectors. This is happending all over the show and I can't understand why inspectors are allowing them to get away with it. If parents start grading teachers in the school every three months the teachers won't be able to hide what's going on to the inspectors and teachers who are pretending might stop. Teachers that aren't giving inspectors the facts need to be stopped...they're not giving children an honest education.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
GeorgianMumto5 · 08/03/2013 14:36

Yes, it's a pity there are so many teachers on this thread, given it's a thread about, y'know, them. Hmm

clam · 08/03/2013 18:54

Forgive me, but isn't twiggles' latest post an exact replica of the bollocks what she has spouted in her OP?

Feenie · 08/03/2013 18:58

Oh hello again, Twiggles - still barking then Grin

LindyHemming · 08/03/2013 19:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Snorbs · 08/03/2013 19:06

Twiggles, I'm a parent. I'm not a teacher. I'd really like to see what evidence you have of teachers cheating.

I am confident that my request will, once again, be completely ignored. Because you have no evidence do you?

clam · 08/03/2013 19:08

Hmm, well, if I was grading myself I'd say "nice, confident, a bit snippy, harridan."

poshme · 08/03/2013 19:23

I think that the suggestion of a random sentence generator is a good one - I though that on about page 3!
Some sort of robot, designed to irritate teachers.
How long dyou think it'll be allowed by its controller to keep going?

LaBelleDameSansPatience · 08/03/2013 19:24

At the moment, I'd say 'rabbit in the headlights'.

sittinginthesun · 08/03/2013 19:28

I thought this thread had gone to sleep. Still, it is Friday I suppose...

cumbrialass · 08/03/2013 19:29

After two parents evenings, World Maths Day, World Book Day and Mothers DAy assembly all this week, I would need a "frazzled" category Grin

indyandlara · 08/03/2013 19:38

Blah blah blah. Same old with no evidence or anything new to say.

Happy to be graded by parents as long as I can grade them too.

Snorbs · 08/03/2013 22:07

As well as grading teachers, could us parents also grade OPs of Mumsnet threads who make wild claims wholly unsupported by any evidence and who completely ignore any requests for clarification?

If so, Twiggles I award you a 'D' - must try harder.

exoticfruits · 08/03/2013 22:17

I don't know why when Twiggles was told she was spouting utter rubbish that she bothered to come back for a second go!
I'm not sure I would even give her a D- I would say she needed evidence. She must be a very tedious parent.

Feenie · 08/03/2013 22:44

I would give her Notice to Improve.

CecilyP · 09/03/2013 08:23

Every single teacher needs to be graded by parents, every term. Teachers who are cheating might stop if they knew they couldn't get away with it.

For an typical class of 30, there would be around 50 parents so if they gave grades from A to D, it would probably average out at B- (or somewhat up herself, given Euphemia's system); it would tell you nothing.

Labro · 09/03/2013 08:44

heres a radical thought for twiggles (and no, I'm not a teacher either) perhaps her child (as we are obviously talking about 1 child rather than the implied millions) has developed under her teachers care and attention, but mummy (aka twiggles) doesn't want to actually believe that though said child started school reading, she didn't actually read with understanding??? Then, said very pushy parent (aka Twiggles) decided that ALL teachers are actually the same (which, being human they're all different!) and couldn't wait to get her sentence generator out at the same time each year! Wonder how old her child is now?

exoticfruits · 09/03/2013 10:01

It is easy to tell that twiggles has made no progress. After 6 or so weeks she comes back without anything new to add to the debate and obviously has no clue as to how schools track pupils.

I don't normally nit pick but I will this time.

some primary schools and nurseries are pretending children start off at the low end, so they can pretend to inspectors of private and state schools that the child has developed only because of their teaching

Name some-failing that a percentage-'some' could be 3 schools, 300 schools or 3000 schools or more.
What does twiggles think inspectors do? Confused Does she not realise that they go through all the paper work and look at exercise books of the above average, average, below average and SEN?
Does she think that parents are thick? That intelligent parents in the state sector don't know what their DC can do and are not getting updates and seeing the changes for themselves. Does she think that parents in the private sector are forking out thousands of pounds in fees without keeping a close watch on whether it is worth it?

some schools in rich areas take it out on the child. They won't bother giving the child attention, because the child's advanced, so they let the child coast downwards. But they give reports in writing about the child that pretend the child has started off at a low point in development and then got much better because of the teaching at the school....when the fact is the child was able to read or write when the child started at the school and as the school is giving the child little attention, the child has coasted downwards

This is only a repeat of the first paragraph and the next bit is the same again. She seems to have a very dim view of parents. If they have an advanced child it is probably because they are reasonably intelligent themselves-they know where the child is when they start and school is a partnership. I have never tried to ignore a bright child when teaching but I would imagine it is impossible. OP seems to think that DCs are just apathetic and sit there like a bowl of porridge doing nothing unless the teacher notices them. It supposes that parents never talk to their child and never go in to say the child is bored and it supposes that the inspectors are not free to talk to any child. Above all it ignores the fact that parents can fill in a questionnaire before the inspection and be as candid as they like. They can write whole essays if they wish!
If a bright child is coasting I can't see how it is downwards-how do you unlearn what you can already do?

they want all children to be the same standard

Why? It is much easier to have different standards. Even if you start a lesson from the same place they will all be at different places by the end.

be the same standard, like a photocopier

As a supply teacher I have used many different photocopiers and they are not the same standard! Some are basic and some very advanced with everything in between.

This is happending all over the show

A repeat of the first paragraph-same question. Evidence please.

I can't understand why inspectors are allowing them to get away with it

Again a repeat-from someone who has no idea how a school inspection works.

The ending says the same again-I can't even be bothered to copy and paste.

Basically it could be a very short OP. Twiggles thinks that teachers are lazy and they can teach at the same level for a whole class by pretending that the bright are average so that they coast along and at the end of the year the teacher looks brilliant by getting them back to the place that they were at when they started and that inspectors and parents are so thick or gullible that they can't work this out!! It also doesn't explain what they do with the SEN or below average who are also supposed to make progress.

I suggest that she rewrites if she wishes to continue the debate -with evidence.
I would imagine that she either has an axe to grind with a particular school or she is a home educator who has a very poor opinion of schools in general.

twiggles · 10/03/2013 01:37

If you don't like this thread, you're under no obligation to leave messages.
All I've heard so far is a regurgitation of the rather boring and uninspiring teachers' status quo, such as the off pat unoriginal statement that no child can be a good all rounder - which is a stale idea, suggesting those who reel it off are not all rounders themselves and can't imagine how anyone could be, because it's outside their own experience. Poor children. Stale thinking teachers can breed stale ideas that encourage children to believe they're limited. Perception is projection. If a child or adult believes they're limited they probably will be. Just because some teachers are limited themselves and feel insecure about letting children be all they can be is no reason to let teachers get away with it. If parents and their children grade teachers every term, the best teachers will benefit. I don't think many of the teachers on this thread would get an award for politeness. Hopefully, the way they are here doesn't reflect the way they are with their pupils.

OP posts:
Labro · 10/03/2013 05:19

but your argument for grading teachers by parents doesn't have any particular validity apart from applying it to the teacher or teachers who have taught your own child badly. You are also regurgitating an old argument repeatedly and now suggest that the child should grade the teacher as well? So, an adults competance should be scored by a 5 year old? If you've had problems with individual teachers then it doesn't follow that there needs to be a national awareness or system, ofsted already exist!

exoticfruits · 10/03/2013 07:26

I know lots of children who are good all rounders and I know lots of very bright children- our schools are full of them and able to cope!
I don't think that you have the least understanding of Ofsted.
Firstly parents can contact them at any time with concerns- they do not have to wait for an inspection.
Secondly when there is an inspection parents get the questionnaire and can add extra comments- they will then look out specifically for any concerns.
Thirdly the inspectors can talk to any child during the inspection and ask their opinions.( they are not stupid- they have opinions)
Fourthly differentiation is one of the key things they are looking for and the school would get a very poor result if they were not extending the brightest.
They also have all the past lesson plans which have to show differentiation.
Fifthly they see a selection of exercise books from an above average child, an average child, below average child and SEN child and the would no be expected to have exactly the same work and they would be expected to show what had been in the lesson plan. The inspectors don't have to stick to the selected books, they can see any.

Apart from inspections teachers are regularly observed in lessons by the Head, the subject leader and the school governors. They give written feedback.
In all primary schools that I have worked in, parents help out in the classroom and they can see what goes on in a lesson.

You seem to think there is a major conspiracy, all colluded by parents, governors and children who don't speak up- when they have ample opportunity to do so.
I love the way that I am told that I am not obliged to leave messages! Luckily it is a public thread and I can say what I like, within the guidelines. I suggest that you hide it if you don't like it because I shall continue to correct you.

I believe there are sites where you can grade your teacher. Personally I think they are a waste of space and wouldn't bother reading them. As an intelligent parent, with intelligent children, we can make our own mind up. If I thought that the school was failing my children then I would change the school.

What a shame that teachers have to be polite and can't grade the parents! Grin

exoticfruits · 10/03/2013 07:31

You have a peculiar last sentence

'Hopefully, the way they are here doesn't reflect the way they are with their pupils'

I thought the entire point was that you didn't like the way they were were with the pupils! You need to make up your mind- or maybe you mean that they are 'politely negligent'. If they are not doing their job properly I can't see that it matters- it would be more helpful if they were 'rudely negligent' because they would be noticed more quickly and weeded out sooner.

exoticfruits · 10/03/2013 07:42

I suggest that you take it up with the Head of your child's school- if you are not happy with the response then contact the governors. After that, if you are still not happy, write to Ofsted.
If you don't have children in school then you don't have to worry- other parents are intelligent enough to deal with it themselves.

Gingerodgers · 10/03/2013 07:54

Twiggles, you sound a bit bonkers.

clam · 10/03/2013 09:05

"A bit?" Hmm