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Stop Schools Cheating Please

452 replies

twiggles · 20/01/2013 11:17

Whatever your child is like, some primary schools and nurseries are pretending children start off at the low end, so they can pretend to inspectors of private and state schools that the child has developed only because of their teaching. If your child's advanced , some schools in rich areas take it out on the child. They won't bother giving the child attention, because the child's advanced, so they let the child coast downwards. But they give reports in writing about the child that pretend the child has started off at a low point in development and then got much better because of the teaching at the school....when the fact is the child was able to read or write when the child started at the school and as the school is giving the child little attention, the child has coasted downwards. Tha's what many schools do so they can pretend they've developed everything in the child, they want all children to be the same standard, like a photocopier. Poor children. Some teachers admit they're cheating and don't take the reports seriously and write them to impress inspectors. This is happending all over the show and I can't understand why inspectors are allowing them to get away with it. If parents start grading teachers in the school every three months the teachers won't be able to hide what's going on to the inspectors and teachers who are pretending might stop. Teachers that aren't giving inspectors the facts need to be stopped...they're not giving children an honest education.

OP posts:
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twiggles · 28/01/2013 12:26

Parents interact with the teachers and parents interact with their children. Parents are independent and their knowledge could be tapped at no cost. It's a vast resource and a free resource that could change schools for the better.

OP posts:
cory · 28/01/2013 12:35

twiggles Mon 28-Jan-13 11:56:57
"It's clear that some teachers on this thread underestimate those for whom they are providing a service. Imagine if a hotel had to disregard all those it was providing a service for and seek grading from staff they work only with or from a conglomerate only. Those who know most are those who use the service regularly and they are independent of the industry. Parents are the best resource we have. The question here is why do some teachers fear what their providers of a job will say about them. Letting Parents grade teachers could help to spot the best and the worst. That kind of gauge could be like gold dust. And it's free."

Read my lips: Ofsted do ask for the views of parents and incorporate those into their reports; it is part of the inspection process and totally independent of the school.

Schools commonly also have their own questionnaires.

I know this because I am- not a teacher but a parent.

How many times do we have to repeat it.

Ronaldo · 28/01/2013 12:36

Whilst I wont say its deliberate cheating or just plain ignorance and labelling I have to admit what the OP said strikes a chord with me. I recall an " assessment" being made of my DS where we were told he was lacking. It turned out they hadquestioned himabout football as part of this assessment and he was found wanting - so they could improve him was it?

Of course he knew nothing about football , neither doI! Ask about cricket or better still ice hockey , basket ball or baseball and he was your man. My DS also turned up able to read and write but it seems the school needed to denegrate this on order to justify themselves. he couldstill read and write though.

I took my DS out of the school

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 28/01/2013 17:12

Blimey, it's like Groundhog Day in here Hmm

pointythings · 28/01/2013 18:06

Ronaldo what was the assessment on? I very much doubt it was about football, far more likely it was about speaking and listening - in which case the topic really doesn't matter much, it's about use of vocabulary, fluency, and yes - ability to continue a conversation even if the subject is not one you're expert on.

And I'm sorry if the school did not differentiate appropriately for your DS - but this is very much not the norm. There are plenty of posters on here who will testify to the contrary.

Oh twiggles - if you aren't a computer of some sort - can you *please provide us with evidence? Links? Anything that isn't an indigestible regurgitation of your previous posts?

Snorbs · 28/01/2013 18:52

twiggles why don't you just stop beating around the bush.

What you want is to be able to get your PFB's teacher sacked if he/she doesn't agree with you that PFB is a genius.

That's why you're not answering questions about evidence because it's not about evidence, it's about you being outraged that no-one else can see just how special PFB is.

Lifeisontheup · 28/01/2013 22:12

Parents are NOT independent, they are the most biased people- for their children, it's perfectly natural to be so.
A perfectly ridiculous statement, OP.

EduCated · 28/01/2013 22:40

TEACHERS ARE INDEPENDENTLY GRADED BY OFSTED

YOU HAVE NOT GIVEN ANY EVIDENCE TO BACK THIS UP WHATSOEVER

PARENTS VIEWS FORM PART OF OFSTED REPORTS

Just on case you missed those points...

marcopront · 29/01/2013 01:23

This is probably a stupid question but

What is the connection between parents grading teachers and teachers grading students wrongly?

and a follow up

If the teachers cheat who is to say the parents won't?

twiggles · 29/01/2013 11:50

I'm aware of what's in place and what isn't. And it's put here that all teachers would benefit from being graded by parents on a termly basis in order to keep teachers on their toes and discourage them from cheating. if not graded termly, then at the end of every academic year. That would help spot good teachers, not only sift out the not so good teachers. If you're one of the teachers that fear being graded by parents and their pupils, the reason may be because you fear what they might say. That's no reason not to do it. If the bull's taken by the horns, there's some hope of taming it. Change is rarely comfortable, but without it we would get nowhere.

OP posts:
Snorbs · 29/01/2013 11:57

Twiggles I bet you're an absolute blast at parties.

"Twiggles, do you want a drink?"
"Teachers cheat and we should be able to sack the bastards!"
"Twiggles that's as may be, but what would you like to drink?"
"Teachers cheat!"
"Um, ok. Let's forget the drinks for a moment. Why do you think teachers cheat?"
"Teachers cheat and we should be able to sack the bastards!"
"If you say so Twiggles. Seems a bit of a hassle for little benefit."
"The only people against this are scared teachers!"
"Twiggles I am sorry but I've just remembered that I've left the iron on. Must dash!"

marcopront · 29/01/2013 12:34

Twiggles at the risk of repeating myself please can you explain to me, how will you as parent, grading me a teacher stop me from giving your child the wrong assessment. I am only a teacher and don't have the benefit of your wisdom.

Feenie · 29/01/2013 13:14

Twiggles, may I just say you are a shining example of why your own suggestion should never, ever come to fruition, and you provide all of the reasons of why it should not.

Beautifully illustrated - well done! Thanks

clam · 29/01/2013 14:00

I've dipped in and out of this thread over the last week or two - couldn't be arsed to engage. Not worth risking chipping my manicure for. Grin

How you doing, feenie teachers and mrz et al?

Mind you, is it worth me asking the OP how I'd be graded this term, seeing as how I'm one of those skiving bastards teachers who's not been even in the classroom this term, as I've bust my leg. How likely, graded on a 1-10 basis, is it I'd get an answer?

twiggles · 29/01/2013 15:27

The type of language some teachers on this thread use, hopefully doesn't reflect the type of language they use in the classroom. The suggestion of parents grading teachers may not be your cup of tea, if you're a teacher who is fearful of what might be said about you, but some will see the logic. Change is rarely comfortable and a change like parents grading teachers takes a jump in perception. When steam railways were mooted many, many years ago, before our time, they received an overwhelming no with arguments that look laughable today in view of the fact that railways are now an integral part of our world.

OP posts:
Feenie · 29/01/2013 15:38

clam - I would say -3 (not a cat's chance Grin). Hope your leg gets better soon x

Twiggles, what language are you referring to?

learnandsay · 29/01/2013 15:38

Right, that's why HS2 is getting such a great reception.

Lifeisontheup · 29/01/2013 15:42

As a parent I would refuse to grade teachers. I would hate the idea and have better things to do with my time.
I have, over the years, trusted my children's teachers to get on with their job with my support but not interference. It seems to have worked, I haven't always liked everything they've said and I have no doubt that they haven't agreed with everything that I have said but we have existed in an atmosphere of mutual support and a lack of interference from both sides.

learnandsay · 29/01/2013 15:49

I think perhaps parents should grade the teachers at other schools based on the way those children behave in public. Or maybe everyone should grade them regardless of their parental status.

Or maybe everybody should grade everything.

Meeknmild · 29/01/2013 16:01

twiggles - perhaps you would like to explain just how parents should grade teachers?!

Have you ever thought about becoming a governor...

clam · 29/01/2013 16:13

I'm fairly confident that the parents of the kids in my class would grade me favourably, so I have no axe to grind here.

However, I'll go along with parents grading teachers with, presumably, the possible end result of some being sacked, the day I'm allowed to grade parents with the possible end result of them having their dcs taken into care. Fair enough?

And feenie I suspect I'm the one guilty of using bad language. Grin Mitigating circumstances.

Level3at6months · 29/01/2013 16:18

Twiggles, how many times does it have to be pointed out to you that teachers are already graded by multiple layers of people and parents have plenty of opportunities to make their views known? If teachers avoided responding to their pupils as much as you're avoiding responding to the posters on here, we'd be in a very sorry state indeed.

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 29/01/2013 16:29

Just popping in for my daily groundhog moment Grin

pointythings · 29/01/2013 18:26

Actually if the grading goes two ways that might be a lot of fun...

Parent: 'Mrs Fillintheblank seems unable to recognise my precious darling's genius and unwilling to allow him/her to express their free spirit in class - 1/10'

Mrs F: 'PFB's parents shouldn't be allowed to have hamsters, never mind children - 1/10'

And then, under FOI, the reports could be made accessible to all on the Internet, so we could all have a really good laugh.

Meanwhile - this one's for you, Shipwrecked

And snorbs - fabulous stuff. This thread is just something to look forward to at the end of a long day.

ShipwreckedAndComatose · 29/01/2013 19:46

Thanks pointy.. That has cheered me up!!!

This thread is fascinatingly funny!!!

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