Infant School pushing to report me to SS for neglect. Can they do that?

[pylonic]

My DD age 5.5 has had a poor lateness record since the beginning of Year 1. No excuses really, I only lived a 9 minute walk from school but we were late almost every day for at least 6 months. I had trouble sleeping but not to the point of Insomnia, just kept oversleeping through the alarm clock most times (dreaded snooze button).

She's also had some absence, genuine though, illness and doc's appointments.

Last year I was advised by letter that unless lateness improved the school would be referring us to a welfare officer.
3 months ago we had to move out of the village to a nearby town but no transfers in new town for DD so she still attends old school. Because I have had to rely on buses, we have been late again quite a few times, or other people that I have relied on to drive her in for me have been late traffic etc or there's been other logistical problems, so presumably the record isn't improving.

Today the head teacher called my Mum in for a word (I'm 44...why they need to call my Mummy I don't know), and the gist was as follows:

My children are being neglected because I have insomnia (I don't, I just needed to put some excuse down in the late book. Quite tame compared to other regularly late people's excuses), so they want to involve social services.

I have been seen in the village shop with my children buying chocolate bars. And that's it. I don't know what they mean by this? :/

My daughter has turned up without a cardigan on at least two occasions in 'extreme weather'. This constitutes neglect. But they are quick to complain if she's wearing a different colour cardigan to school because her two logo tops are in the wash.

She often has a chocolate drink in her lunchbox.

This is a very cliquey village, hence glad to have left it behind, but although the late record is admittedly quite dire, is it generally worthy of involving social services for neglect?

The head teacher and I "don't have a dialogue" she told my Mum, hence why she called her in to talk to instead.

I've only spoken to the head once, when I had to inform them about the children's father's DV past so that they do not let him take DD out of school without my permission.

I bristle under authority having come into my Catholic rebellion quite late in life, but I'm generally non-combative.

So I'm wondering what you think of my request, in that I want toask the head to write down all the concerns she has so I have it in writing, and then invite her to my home in order that she can ascertain for herself it is a proper, clean, comfortable and sustaining environment for the children.

I feel a bit Hmmmmm that she has gone 'running to my Mummy' instead of talking to me, the parent, especially considering this late book has been full of the same old, same old pupils including my sister's son, for the last couple of years, but I feel a bit singled out perhaps wrongly, I don't know, because of the whole single mother on benefits stereotype, DV background, and now they want social services to investigate the children for neglect.

The children's father also wants to play this card against me, so I'm just resigned to SS being involved in their lives anyway it's out of my control.

My DD is otherwise happy, bright, doing fine at school and paints happy pictures all the time.

Can an infant school really go down this route when there isn't actually any clear signs of any kind of neglect going on? It seems unfair to tar my DD with this brush and I'm also concerned how this is going to affect her In Year transfer to a school in our new town.

I think this is just a rant, it all seems to be out of my control. The head has a reputation for being an axe-grinder and their Ofsted isn't great for a village school. The conspiracy theorist in me is saying its all about the grades.

Hs anyone been investigated by SS before for neglect? What should I expect? Will it go against me in the forthcoming Vafcass report which their father wants to initiate too as part of his contact/custody case?

Why are you concentrating on the fact that the HT may have spoken out of turn when the issue is that you're letting your daughter down. Really I think you should let that go and try as hard as you can to get her to school.

It's not acceptable to refuse to claim the free school meals, you are in dire financial straits and school food nowadays is of good enough quality that you can't use that as an excuse.

In normal circumstances, I'd say it would be worth arguing the toss about the confidentiality thing, but if they've pegged you as unwilling to engage, then I think you will just be exacerbating the problem if you make that the focus of your communication with the school. It's just a fact of life that you have to cooperate with school as much as possible if you want to stay off their radar, and with all due respect, you don't sound very collaborative in your approach to problem-solving generally. Perhaps you should concentrate on improving that, with your timekeeping, to help yourself?

This all feels very odd to me......Responses are a bit strange.

Schools only refer to outside agencies when parents refuse to discuss problems and hide their heads in the sand. I feel you need to do the following.

1. register your child for free school dinners. No one will do, its not like in the past when the poor children made humilated by being made to sit on a seperate table or stand in a different queue. School dinners have improve dramatically and most my son's class have them. We have no clue who has free dinners and who doesn't.

2. You definately need to see a doctor. It sounds like as if you lost all sense of priority. Severe depression/ anxiety can really screw up thinking.

3. Are there any other schools which you would accept a place at other than the one at the end of your road or the one that in special measures?

4. Would you consider getting a bike. I am sure there must be routes for getting to school that do not involve the M62 or other fast roads.

5. You have been through a hard time over the last few years. Are you having cope for coping with the emotional damage from domestic violence.

We had a warning letter threatening to refer us to an educational welfare officer and inviting us to see the head. My year 6 son was repeatly late due to dawling. I had no idea as he walked to school by himself. We formed a plan and had a star chart for getting my son to school on time. I think the school wants to help, but it is impossible if the parent is acting like a sulky teen.

Depression isn't about attitude, e.g optimism. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain.

I would take away from this thread that yes, if concerns about lateness seem to co-incide with other concerns about a child's life, yes they could,apparantly, inform SS that they are concerned.
But as the Head has chosen to talk with your mum rather than go straight to SS, you could maybe cut out the middle man and explain to the Head that the other things are matters of circumstance and co-incidence, and put a stop to her concerns.

And put your dd on FSM. They publish a menu - either online or the school should be able to give you one, and they have to be able to give a list of ingredients, too. It makes no sense to prioritise packed lunch over bus fares to get her to school.

And given that you say the children's father would happily use any 'card' against you I would sort all this out and get it off your plate asap. The easy way. If you have an ex behaving like that you wnat people ON YOUR SIDE. Not fighting official complaints about talking to your own Mum.

Did the headlice thread get deleted? The way I recall it was that you hadn't removed old nit cases from six months ago, to the point where a hairdresser refused to cut your child's hair, and again, rather than taking it on the chin that it gave the appearance of poor hygiene, you focussed on your belief that the hairdresser should take your word for it that there was no current infestation. I'm pretty sure that's how it went and that I'm not confusing you with another poster.

Hi Pylonic,

I think if they have spoken to your mum it's because they were getting nowhere with you or they feel you have too much of an attitude which does come across on here.

I wouldnt waste time throwing daggers at the head about confidentially I would eat humble pie and go and see him/her immediately and talk about the issues and how you can resolve them rather than wasting energy elsewhere. This is a huge red flag for you, it is serious, you need to get your head around that. I feel you probably do need to see the welfare officer as you are not coping or finding solutions to the hurdles in life that we all face.

I also feel you have anger and depression issues which are quite serious too and you need to get help.

You say your daughter draws happy pictures and really seem a bit dismissive about that and say she is thriving when clearly the school do not. You know kids do pretend and act stuff to their parents to please them don't you.

I have been the daughter of a single mum with a mum with 'issues' yes I smiled and seemed thriving but I was also impacted by my mums behaviour and I still am at the age of 44.

I urge you to get off your high horse seek help and really think about putting your daughter first or you will live to regret it like my mum does now. SHe has been making up for it for years.

You really do need to take this seriously and stop saying stupid things like lateness runs in our family. Your poor daughter you are not giving her a good start at all. She might be better living with her dad or you mother who might give her the rightful care she deserves.

Wake up.

Maybe you should leave the thread now and get ready for tomorrow

Uniform
Packed lunch
Shoes and coats by door
Even put cereal bowls out.

thank you and goodnight...

Ps set two alarms.

Op, i know its hard sometimes, I currently feel like I am trying to walk through treacle some mornings, but you really need to have a think about what your priorities are.

At the end of the day it is all your own fault.

I?m sure there are many MNers that struggle to get out of bed on a morning, or for various other reasons find mornings difficult. However, we all manage to get our children to school on time.
Living nine minutes away but constantly being late for six months is ridiculous! Blaming an alarm clock and bad sleeping can only go so far. It is over 180 days that you were unable to get your DC to school on time, do you not see how bad that looks from the schools point of view?
One question, on those 180+ days were you able to get yourself dressed? put on make up? style your hair?
On a couple of occasions I have overslept, or not realised the time and with the possibility of being late I have run DS to school with my hair scraped up into a clip and no make up on just to ensure that he gets there on time, it really isn?t that hard.

And now you have a bus to get. What exactly stops you from getting the earlier bus?
Finances are not an issue, I can almost guarantee that you would be entitled to some sort of a bus pass, at least for your DC.
But why do you have to make the trip twice? You say you go there and home and then back and home and then back to pick up, why?
If you cant afford to pay for two return trips, and since you don?t work, why can you not just stay in the village all day? since you have to be there every couple of hours anyway.

The uniform issue, if you have more than one school cardigan for your DC then there is no excuse for her to EVER be without on. It is a simple system, we all do it, when one cardigan/jumper is on the child the other is in the wash, that way they always have one clean. You can wash and dry a cardigan in the time she is at school, so even if the one she was wearing that day is dirtied there is no reason she wont have a clean one for the next day.
If that system seems too hard then your other option is to buy more cardigans and have them on rotation.

If the school don?t like children to have chocolate in their lunchbox, which most don?t, why continue to send her with it?
TBH I would never consider sending DS with a chocolate drink for his lunch, those things are not really suitable for a school packed lunch.

I have to admit that you sound very defensive and it wouldn?t surprise me in the slightest if the school have labelled you as unapproachable. It sounds like on the few occasions that they have tried to talk to you about issues or concerns that you have been quite dismissive of them, and then continued to repeat the same problems. No wonder they thought it might be a good idea to talk to your mother, because they probably felt that their concerns were not being addressed from discussing them with you.

You NEED to have good communication with your child?s school, after all they look after your child every day of the week. You want them to be able to discuss things with you.

I think you should make an appointment to see the head, ask exactly what their concerns are, and listen without interrupting. Then when it is your turn explain your problems but tell them that you are wanting to improve and that you would welcome any support that they could offer. I imagine you would be surprised by the help that they could actually offer you.

All in all from everything that you have told us I think as things currently stand the school ANBU to consider contacting SS, I doubt this has as much to do with the lateness as the fact that you are unwilling to discuss your problems with them, instead you just fob them off with excuses.

Oh and while it is awful that you and your DCs lived with DV it is not an excuse that can be applied to every situation.
Many people suffer and recover from DV and still manage to get their children to school on time as well a all of the other things you are blaming on your history of DV.

Again, so it can't be missed:

Sort this out, get the Head on your side, SO THAT YOU AREN'T HANDING AMMUNITION TO YOUR EX.

Right, I think you do need to go and see the GP about potential depression. Depression is not a moral issue - if you have it, it doesn't make you a bad person. It's an illness that can affect the way you cope with life, including looking after your dd. Get help - you owe it to your dd.

I think you also need to start talking openly and constructively with the school. Approach them with 'OK, I understand you have concerns, what are they and how can we work together to resolve them in dd's best interests'. You need to focus on dd, not on arguing with the school. Even if they are wrong, it won't help if you go in all guns blazing - that will merely add to the impression that you really don't get it.

You won't get the head to go away and keep quiet about it by being aggressive. You will assuage her concerns by listening carefully and co-operating.

Hope you get the help you need.

Why are you directing me to other threads?

I asked you a question relating to THIS thread, I don't care whether others are referencing other threads or not.

In the reply to me you may as well have answered the question, so I'll ask again: how do your finances affect getting to school on time? Would make sense if you we're saying she couldn't get there at all but you're not...

Yes - the nits was the ds rather than the dd iirc.

Seriously, OP, if in your interaction with school you come across as unfocused on priorities as you do on this thread, whether deliberately to annoy or because depression is making you a tad disconnected, then their concern is understandable.

You need to start accepting help.

I think it all sounds abit chaotic and that's probably what is worrying the teaching staff.

I honestly would go for the free meals and pupil premimum ( I am sure it's called that) as there's funding then for you child for other activities like school trips - this will be one less worry for you.

I don't want to make judgements but I am going to add this in - you sound to have strong principals and views.. My mother had those and oh blimey how I craved to the 'normal' kid. Not the one who stood out in class. It's draining being the kid who stands out. I don't mean be a sheep but there's a balance to be struck.

Are you sure there's no uniform assistance available? I thought I remembered reading something about you being in East Midlands?
Just checked the gov website and it says local councils can offer assistance with uniform (England only)
Might be worth double checking

Also do the school PTA organise uniform sales of second hand uniform? Often a bun/ book sales. Ours does and you can get the logo jumper/ cards for 50p.

Ooh Pancake, good point about 2nd hand uniform.

Why are people bringing up nits? I can't see that it's relevant

It's relevant because a) the way that thread went showed the OP doesn't find accepting other viewpoints easy, and b) because it showed she hadn't seen it as at all problematic to leave six-month old nit cases in a child's hair, when most other parents flagged it as a hygiene issue: this could also point to neglecting a child's needs, and might be part of a pattern which the school has noticed.

TheBOF

Yes that thread was divided with some people agreeing that dead nit cases are no cause for concern and other people considering that it was child abuse.

The term Child Abuse was used.

Not removing every single nit shell is now considered Child Abuse....to the minority community of some Mumsnetters.

It's all great advertising revenue generating publicity for the site though. Towers just love these controversial threads.

What was the question again?

I hate kittens. I started a thread about it once. I'm waiting for someone to link it into this thread too

I don't think it's child abuse, btw. But it doesn't come across well, in the great scheme of things. Maybe taking concerns on board a bit more would help with keeping SS out of the picture? I can appreciate that you don't agree there's a problem, but sometimes you have to be seen to be making an effort and engaging to make your life run a bit more smoothly.