Year 6 residential - 45 children can definitely go, but if they don't fill a second coach some who want to go will be left behind!!

[Tinks313]

That's it really my dd goes to a 3 class in-take per year (90 children). They do a residential to France which my ds went on. When he went there was no mention of needing a certain number, it was very much those who wanted to go went.
My DH went to the France meeting at school with my DD and I had paid my deposit by the end of the week. The school have now sent a letter stating as discussed in the meeting the first 45 children have a place, but 10 others who have paid deposit are on waiting list, unless 10 more change there mind and go on the trip.
Throughout juniors this trip is billed as being the pinnacle and something many of the children look forward to.
At the moment I don't know if my child is one of the 45 going, but even if she is I can't help feeling disappointed for those 10 who believe they are/were going on the trip and won't be. My DD believes she is going because ds went and we've paid our deposit.
I am interested how they will tell the 10 or will it be left to parents.

Hi, that sucks. At our school if they don't get the number they want, they open it up to year 5s.

It's a bit unfair that those who paid first get first pick when no-one knew that at the time - maybe if it had been made clear people would have paid deposits earlier. Also some may not have had the money straight away. If they really can't fill another coach, a fairer way would be to do a random draw from everyone who's paid a deposit.

Could you suggest hewlett's idea about opening it to other years to the school?

Very unfair to change the rules at this point.

An interesting problem this. As a residential visit, it really should be open to all pupils, so one has to question how that fits with equality. If the school was limiting the visit to 45 then they really should have been making that clear from the start with indication of how those 45 would be chosen.
The situation that they now have is that it is very easy to make the accusation that the school chose the 45 they wanted on the trip rather than it being open to all. In fact it is not open to all as 10 have in effect been not allowed to go on the trip.
My temptation would be to ask the school, how this decision to limit the numbers fits with the equality ethos of the school and all pupils being treated equally. Plus the little issue of the school having plugged this as the pinnacle of the year and something that the pupils look forward to, some of whom are now going to have their hopes dashed. It will completely sour their memories of the school - I was not allowed to go on the french trip!

They do a residential in yr 3, yr 4 & yr 6, so would not be possible.
There was nothing in writing from the school, but apparently it was mentioned at the meeting. I personally think a decision as important as this should have come out in the original letter and yes I would have got my deposit in earlier if I was aware.
I didn't go to meeting because to be honest there are kids talking, parents muttering, it's difficult to hear anything and thought i knew it all as ds went.
I thought primary schools had to be inclusive!!

sorry meant to say they go on residential trips in yr 4, yr5, yr 6.
I am going to go into school tomorrow, even if my dd is not one of the 10 I feel it is unfair and wouldn't be happy with her going knowing others have been left behind.

If my dc was one of the 10 missing out I would be tempted to join forces with another parent in the same situation and ask if you can drive them there, and the other parent drive them back.

The question is, what else do you expect the school to do ?
It is hugely expensive to take a coach to France - fuel costs, driver costs, etc.. Divided by 40ish children, it is affordable, but divided by 10, it clearly isn't. Presumably they made it clear at the meeting they put on to talk about the trip, (the criteria they were using), it's not really their fault if you decided not to go.
It's always disappointing if you don't get to go on a trip you'd like to, but I can't realistically see how they can get round it, and, at 10 or 11 yrs old, there will be plenty of further opportunities to come.

Could they use a minibus rather than a coach for the 'left overs'.

Agree with sashh, there are always other bus options. But a minibus is more expensive. Its also possible many minibus companies arent insured for trips overseas.

I also agree withe the poster who said this trip is not inclusive as they didnt state at the start that it was first come first served. You could complain on those grounds but I'm not sure how much good it would do.

I really feel for you and the teachers. It does seem outrageous but equally I cant imagine a school would do this for the hell of it.

Sounds like blackmail to make the other kids not going get on to their parents about!

There were only places for 2/3 of the year at DS's school residential - this was due to the size of the accommodation they were using. Again, school used "first come first served" as their decider. Interestingly, they didn't even manage to fill all the places on offer.
I wonder if your school has used figures from past years to guesstimate the number of places that will be actually taken up?

Our dd's Y7 trip is limited in numbers, but this is clearly stated up front and, because it's over the Easter holidays, they don't often have to exclude anyone. The selection process is detailed in the initial letter and the situation is clearly outlined for all to see. Fair and equitable.

To not mention this in written communication at the beginning of the process seems unfair. From the school's point of view, I can see it's probably not workable to take everyone, but they seem to have managed this poorly and I'd definitely be pointing that out to the management team at the school.

^The question is, what else do you expect the school to do ?
It is hugely expensive to take a coach to France - fuel costs, driver costs, etc.. Divided by 40ish children, it is affordable, but divided by 10, it clearly isn't.^

This.

The other options are a mini bus - with any extra expense spread between all the children who want to go or the cost of the extra coach being split between all the children. Either way, do you think parents would be happy to pay in order to cover the extra cost?

That is absolutely ridiculous. At dd's primary school anyone who wants to go can go (90 children per yeargroup, 3 class intake too) and they decide on the correct combination of coaches / coach and minibus etc once they know how many attendees they have...

At ds's secondary school the rule is that only the first 100 can go. (But it is a 300 children, 10 classes per yeargroup intake) and they know this. Also, there is no waiting list. It is done purely on first come first serve, so the day ds brought the letter home we paid the deposit online, signed the permission slip which he took back to school the following day and he had a place

I really don't like the waiting list idea. Can't the school get a coach and a minibus? Or could some teachers club together and drive? (our school has done that too if numbers required it)

Oh yes, with regards to the extra cost a minibus would incur, our school always states an estimated cost first, then, once they know the final cost (based on how many children wish to attend) parents get advised of the final cost. As it is, our school always over-estimates the cost and most years the parents get a bit of a refund

I agree that it should have been made clear in original letter that came home from school about the trip. When the children moved to KS2 we had a meeting and the head teacher was very passionate about all the residential trips and actively encouraged parents to send the children. When DS went on the trip it was never mentioned that only the first 45 were guaranteed a place and that it was dependent on numbers if others went or not.
I don't think as many children in my dd's year have gone on the residential trips the last two years. Most of the year group appeared to go when my ds went, but I would guess 2/3 of dd's current year went on the last residential maybe less.
I have been told that the school are hoping to take all the children who want to go and are looking at alternative travel options.
Fingers crossed they get it sorted.

If it was clear in original letter I wouldn't be complaining. i do feel like the rules have been changed half way through a game.

Hopefully they will fairly pick the 45 out of a hat. Why can't they get either a larger coach or 2 medium-sized ones? Presumeably everyone's feeling the pinch this year and there hasn't been the normal take up. How annoying and also not knowing if you are one of the lucky ones or not.

How many staff are going on the trip?

You may also want to make sure that the charging policy for the residential visit fits within the requirements of the law.

www.education.gov.uk/schools/adminandfinance/financialmanagement/goodpractice/b0011770/charging-school-activities/residential-visits

It may be, for example, that once they have made clear that for families receiving a range of benefits, board and loding cannot be charged for (depending on the actual days on which the trip takes place - see www.lotc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/GCharging-Policy-Updated-PDF-1APR09.pdf for a useful flowchart, there may be other families who come forward.....

This brings back memories of my year 6 in good old 91. juniors.

they picked names out hat.

they did 2seperate trips to outbounds/wales.

not heard of schools going abroad as that would involve passports.

all my freinds were on other trip
so decidided not to go

round here most double intake schools do yera 6trip uk only
my dd goes small village school and its every other year so open to year 5/6 only 20per year so 1 coach I guess as whole school filled 2coaches to panto trip other week.

costs huge implication as heard from other year 6parents its over 200 a lot to find for most families at short notice.