my child reads and write at top level, but her Phonics group is not!!!

[B4r4joon]

My daughter is a very bright child at Y1...she is reading and writing very well...however when it came to grouping them, she is not been located in the top group in Phonics, although she reads the same level and writes the same as those children on the top group. This is very confusing for her amd me, as I dont understand on what basis this happened. She can be at times shy and she observes her peers very well and learn from them as she is bi-lingual. In the gropu she is in now, the difference between the level she reads and the level of some other children is huge...perhaps 7 colour reading band!!!

This has affecte dmy childs confidence as she thinks she hasnt been good enough, or why she is reading the same book as her reading partner, and he/she is in another group. ALl confusing for me, I am gonna talk to the teacher tomorrow, and I dont know how to say it. i dont want to convey that I dont trust their judgment, but this is gonna hold my child back and crashes her confidence, as the groups are gonna stay the same until the end of teh year! Can I ask the teacher to move my child to the other group? Is Phonics the knowledge that they learn to apply to their writing and reading, so how can she read and write higher than her phonics knowledge? She is already reading sounds that she has not been officially taught, by working it out on herself....

mam29 phonics is about the relationship between sounds and letters so it's auditory and visual

Mam - I do wonder if your DD's other school have something to do with her lack of confidence re reading.

Were you not saying she was obsessed with levels etc?? So it must have knocked her confidence to be on lower levels than her friends. I hope that having a new teacher this term does not hinder her (from a confidence point of view - not a teaching point of view iyswim). I know it took my DS a while to feel confident enough to read well with a new teacher (not so much now,but he is in yr3).

thanks simpsons yes most of year 1 and especially summer term she was fixated with levels.

term 1year 2 she was very anxious and worried.

whe tried to raise my concerns was told this is what year 2 like oits important /busy year and need to get them junior standard,

THE Split classes ,erging with younest in year combining again but being ahead and on top table upset her too.

They were in reflection quite negative,
I understand teacher has to differentiate but was very obvious in her class what groups meant what and they had different homework.

Im pleased new school intervening and just looked up this rapid reading scheme looks good ,pleased shes getting some one to one as well as lots reading at home.

its sad new year 2teacher that she likes is leaving end of this term.
so jan she starts year 2 teacher no 3 who will teach her longest but classes, lessons will run same and tas the same.

I did worry a move may set her back but felt her old school was doing nothing and damaging self esteem then was worth risk and socially shes so much happier and teacher said her confidence has grown last couple weeks shes no 2nd oldest in mixed year 1/2class. she as in middle of age and ability of pure year 2 class before.

Teacher said she feels its confidence and she anticipates with intervention she will get upto 2b from 1b by end of year 2.

Im annoyed ith myself i had concerns over reading end reception as told not to worry.

1st parents evening year 1 told everythings fab dont worry.
2nd one few weaknesses doing phonics intevention dont worry.

then end of year 1report july saying shes struggled year 1 and slightly behind in all subjects.

tried to raise it start year 2 told not to worry. in all fairness they may have raised her nc grade but was unsure if her self esteem have been intact by end of year .

hopefully now shes happier
pretty much has fulltime ta in her class compared to old
less truct diffrent style of learning, tesching less formal, more hands on, smaller groups ill all benefit her next year she be in mixed year 2/3class.

I feel sad shes struggled but pleased shes finally getting some extra help.Shame had to leave a school to do that but know i made right decision new school want her to be confident and instill love of reading they not fixated with levels.

I think this is 1 of the interventions they using for relating her phonics to spelling-small groups and ta delivering

www.pearsonphonics.co.uk/SoundDiscovery/TheProgramme/TheProgramme.aspx

and this is one to one interevention with ta and computer

www.pearsonschoolsandfecolleges.co.uk/Primary/Literacy/AllLiteracyresources/RapidReading/Structure/Structure.aspx

keeping pearson going school does online bug club too.

mrs z as teacher do these schemes look good to you?
any experince? the case studies look promising results,

seens odd dds very good phobics top group yet struggling reading and spelling like there been a dis connect somewhere.

totally reverse to op dd who low for phonics but high level reader

We use the Rapid Reading books in school and they are very popular I'm not too keen on the computer programme or Sound Discovery but that's just personal preference

Funny you mention Canada mam, I started school in Canada, so had no schooling til I was over 5. Two less years as pretty much everyone sends their child to nursery these days. The first year in Canada is Kindergarten, which was play based, so nothing formal til Year 2.

According to the meeting we had with teachers last week the slightly rejigged EYFS standards mean they can now start literacy proper in nursery.

mrz, I've a hand out here from another local primary explaining how the children there are taught to use the terms phoneme, grapheme and split digraph.

That's their choice IWipeArses they don't have to.

But they do. Whether or not they have to, they do. And how many others? It's cultural.

The girl from canada was actually from uk.

she did half term in uk reception then moved due to parents job.
hse then transfered back into beggning of year 2 could read but was loer group and extra help on phonics.

Lack of phonics or less time in school dident stop her from reading.

dds strength in phonics as not helped her become a good reader

guess every childs different.

I never felt like dd lacked capability think it was the learning approach.

so odd in state sector england with nc every schools doing different thingsmaybe the approach has to be catered for demographics abd ability chort of that school or class the pushy aaproach in high performing suburnan leafy primary may not work as well in more mixed inner city primary.

she had youger sibling ho had to start year 1 and skip reception so had never done any school and he was offered extra help too.

dds old school from the very few weeks of 1st term in reception they ere bringing home sounds and reading books.

dds freinds infants dident do any start on reading until after xmas and had no homework policy.its hard to say as infants dident see results but the feeder junior gets very good results.

Thanks mrz for feedback.

im just relieved they identified weakness and have a plan as felt quite worried last 6months over it.

Sounds like the new school is really going to help your DD mam.

My DC HT is canadian. I did not realise they start school later tbh not that it makes much difference really as she is working in the UK now obviously. But interesting to know....

Quite normal over there to not be reading at 7. (Or at least it was in the 80s, can't speak for now). Two of my non-reading by 7 cousins are professional writers.

I think you will find things have changed since the 80s IWipeArses after Canada identified a "literacy crisis"
Kindergarten and early interventi on: Ninety per cent of eligible Canadian children attend kindergarten, which is available but not compulsory in all provinces and territories. Kindergarten is the first school-based opportunity for early interventi on with children at risk for reading difficulties.

In the K?3 years, all children should be taught to read in their regular classroom.

They're still not trying to teach 3/4 year olds to read then.

If school started later in the UK then we wouldn't be trying to teach three and four year olds to read either.

No and neither are most teachers in the UK IWipeArses.
learnandsay school in the UK starts the term after the child's fifth birthday earlier than that is up to parents. I seem to recall you started teaching your child 2 years before school?

mrz, they learn to read in Reception. Most people send their children to nursery and Reception, where they are taught phonics and given reading books.

Most children don't start learning to read until reception where there will be a mixture of 4+ and 5+ aged children.

No matter what age school starts I would always have magnetic letters on the fridge door, wooden numbers and what have you. But I wouldn't call that teaching reading. However, if formal schooling didn't start until seven years, I'm sure I wouldn't start actually teaching my child to read until she was five or so, unless she showed an interest earlier. It's funny. My one year old picks up books, mainly upside down, turns the pages over and says "baba, dada, ggoo, goo, goo" on each page until she's got to the end of the book. Of course she's copying me and her sister when we read the same books. (She thinks she's reading!) I have no idea at what age I'll start teaching her. Her sister learned the abc song at nursery and seemed to have an appreciation of what letters mean. And she had this before I started teaching her. The one year old goes to a different nursery where they don't seem to do any letter and number work. So maybe for the little one teaching will start later. I don't know.

I wouldn't want my daughter to start school a year after the other children have already formed friendships. Early friendships both in school and in nursery have proved invaluable. Of course there's also a cliquey mums angle which has nothing to do with anything.

Yup, 4 year olds, as I said. And the Nursery teacher seemed very pleased about the recent changes in EYFS that means she can do more formal work now.

Then she needs to read it more carefully

I have to wonder what percentage of early years teachers stick to the guidelines then. My nephew was doing Jolly Phonics in nursery.

You seem very unfortunate in your association with "pushy" schools

My DD did JP in nursery and the new nursery class this year are starting it after Xmas.

I think it's quite relaxed and learning the songs for it to go with each letter at this stage.

The other school, the one my nephew attends was traditionally known as the more pushier academic primary, but the smaller one my son attends has been much more formal than I'd been led to believe, since a different, more traditional teacher moved down into early years.
It is very unfortunate.