teacher accusing my kids of lying - WWYD ?

[StickyFloor]

I have twins in Y4, 29 kids in the class made up of Y3 and Y4 mixed class. The class is organised by ability and they are on the "top table" with 3 others.

X in Y3 was recently moved onto their table because a girl on there was misbehaving so the teacher moved her to the front of the class (regardless of ability). X is known to be a real troublemaker, not in a nasty way just immature fiddling, chatting, mucking about way.

Since the start of term all the kids have been full of stories about the daft things he did and how the whole class was being constantly disrupted. I have helped on 2 school trips and seen for myself that the whole day is spent listening to the teacher randomly shouting "stop it X" "that's enough X" on and on and on.

I didn't pay much attention and told my kids to try and ignore it, but when he moved on to their table the disruption was too in their faces to ignore.

I spoke to the HT briefly who laughed and said that the teacher is just moving X around to try and even out the pain for whichever table he is on!

I spoke to the teacher who said she things it has worked out really well on top table and he is much calmer, probably because they try and ignore him so he has no-one to feed off. I said I could well believe that, but it wasn't fair that they should have to bear the brunt of it in the meantime. She asked for time for things to settle, and I said i would keep an eye on things.

One week went by and they complained every single day about him. On 2 days things were so bad that he was sent out of class completely. I decided to wait until tomorrow's parents' evening to raise this.

Today, M, on their table, came out upset that X had hit her in class and when she told, the teacher said "sit down and stop telling tales". My son then went up to the teacher and said it's true, he has been bothering us all and he did just hit her. Teacher said the exact same thing to him too. Earlier in the day another child from the table had complained about him jabbing pencils on the desk and been told to sit down too. My dd confirmed all of this had happened.

This evening M's mum had her parents evening session and the teacher said that she thinks the kids on top table have taken against X because he has a bad reputation and are making up stories, and she wants them to calm down and show him a good example.

To say I am furious is an understatement. But the teacher and HT both have form for telling children that they are mistaken and telling parents that their kids are confused or exaggerating etc. This time there are 3 kids all saying exactly the same things and they are being accused of collusion. Apart from the fact that I am not happy with them having to put up with X pestering them all day every day I am livid that both my children are being accused of lying and deliberately trying to get another child into trouble.

My parents evening slot is tomorrow, so what do I do if she says the same thing to me?

Oh and OP - DH and I have brought up both our sons to know what right or wrong is, what good or bad behaviour is.

DS2 actually flourished under one teacher, she was bloody fabulous. She didn't care if he had his elbows on the table or if he knelt on his chair. What mattered to her was that he was comfy and of he was comfy he was less likely to fidget.

Behaviour problems are special needs.

Ok here's what I would have done.
I would have spoken to the teacher and flagged up that I was concerned by some of my dc comments about x
I would have also told my dc to stop whining and focus on their own work.
I would have asked the teacher to deal with any significant incidents that affected my dc
I would have asked that my dc or x or the tables were maybe swapped around each term or half term so that my dc were not expected to be with x all day every day.
I would not have got all worked up that my dc were being accused of lying after a comment heard third hand from another mum about telling tales.
I would not assume that I knew the full picture or even that I should know the full picture from a few comments from my dc. Hope that clears up what I think the op should do or have done.

I'm genuinely finding it hard to imagine a class in which the tables are stabvle all day, every day. In my class - HUGE ability range - pretty much every child moves through around 5 groupings every day: randomly selected (and regularly changed) talk partners, mixed ability groups for lessons like science and French and topic, literacy groups (which change fairly rarely, probably 5 or 6 children moved around per half term) and maths groups (which start off the same at the beginning of each week but move around a lot as the series of lessons develop, also change dramatically for shape and data work), and guided reading groups.

In that kind of environment, nobody 'always gets stuck with the irritating child', children get used to dealing with others who are very different from each other, there isn't a 'smug top table' mentality, and IME the gaps between groups don't become entrenched as there is so much movement and flexibility.

So to an extent, I think the school's groupings plan is partly to blame - especially because I also think that it feeds the parental attitude of 'our precious little darlings are nicely brought up top table types who mustn't be bothered by anyone else's behaviour.'. In many ways, the OP's children are in the best position to deal with X - they have no behavioural problems of their own, they find class work easy, and are probably much less significantly disadvantaged by minor disruption than children who find behaving more difficult themselves, or have to concentrate absolutely to the utmost to stay with the work of every lesson. They might even find that, over quite a short time, X learns from them and behaves better and that this is a genuine long-term solution and part of a carefully-worked-out behavioural plan for X - so in fact the OP may have scuppered the possibility that she claims she wants most, the long-term modification of X's behaviour....

The stuff you mentioned are all avoidance methods by this child to get out of working . Has this child been assessed for learning difficulties , he may be struggling with the work and this is his way of getting out of doing it , which has worked up till now . Rather than excluding him could the other kids not find way of helping him , especially in group work , boasting his confidence that he sees it as good to have ideas and participate .
Teacher in my child class use to do one parctial lesson in maths where they had to work in groups to get the answers . Thinks like you have four pipes that you have to irrigate so much of a field how would you position the pipes to do this . It really made the kids think of solutions and help with kids who found it hard to sit , different child was picked each lesson as team leader . It helped all the children learn to work together and they didn't know when she choice to do these lesson so they tired harder in others for the fun ones . She would have them act out books, stories , poems . They would then follow up with written work . She had three/ four kids in class who could be disruptive . It worked well and all children where mixed into different groups , so no top table type of situation .
Don't know weather you child school would consider options like these , or the head would allow it . This was also a primary school , they had a high proportion of children who struggled with either learning or behaviour .

This reminds me of when I was in infants school years and years ago. I was sat next to a little boy who spent the entire day picking his nose and wiping the findings on my exercise book. I remember complaining to the teacher and her saying that I had to be kind because the little boy couldn't help it (presumably he had some sort of SN). I was a really timid child (it had taken me a week to pluck up courage to say something) and I gave up and just sort of wrote round the bogeys. Luckily he didn't stay at the school much longer.

Hermione thanks for understanding where I am coming from and what I have been trying to articulate on here!

Responding to some of the other recent posts I would point out that actually I have no control over ability groupings or teaching techniques and I am clearly not a teacher. I would hope that the teacher and HT are thinking of all of the ideas you are making and considering them if they perceive the current system not to be working. If this also included a longterm plan for X involving sitting him on top table then I would have expected them to stick their guns and explain why they were doing what they were doing. But in fact I think there was and is no plan at all, but I don't see why that is my fault.

To reiterate, neither I nor my children have a "smug top table" mentality. Both of my children have subjects and things they find harder than others and don't consider themselves better than their classmates in any way because of the table they are on. I have a feeling adults get more hung up on this sort of labelling than the kids do - they don't refer to themselves as "top table" but the teacher does when talking to parents.

Those of you who want me to empathise with X and his mum, well I do actually to a point, but I don;t put his felings above the rest of the kids which you seem to expect, especially as you keep telling me he has SN so I must be more understanding!

I noticed him looking glum today on a school trip. For 4 hours he spent much of his time on his own, he only seems to have one other friend but he got into trouble early on and then largely stayed away from X. All day his was about the only name I heard being called out by the teacher so he probably was pretty fed up with being told off all the time. Certainly nothing she said seemed to make any difference to what he was doing. But when they were sat watching a short video and teacher told him off for repeatedly kicking the boy in front I also felt sorry for that boy too, and didn't blame him for eventually moving away. Same thing at lunch when he pushed another child out off his chair so he could sit down, and the next boy along decided to move to be with his buddy elsewhere. Maybe the teacher has some fab strategy and will act on today's issues from tomorrow, who knows? But for today she kept up a chant of "X stop it" "X I can see you" "X that is enough" "X that is not how I expect you to behave" "X move away from Y" "X I am not happy with your behaviour" on and on and on. Meanwhile the other kids were just ignoring him as much as possible and moving away from him.

I don't think that is smug top table mentality, I don't know if it SN, but it is one small example from today of X being daft and annoying another child. The teacher told X off and he carried on, so the other child moved away. That is the reality of what it is like in a class when one child is constantly disruptive, and my sympathy is much more with the other kids who are expected to put up with it.

What does the behaviour policy say? What sanctions are imposed for repeated niggly behaviour?