Forced baby behaviour?

[learnandsay]

Are simplistic phonics books good, bad or neutral? If a Reception child can already read Ladybird stories such as Three Little Pigs, Where the Wild Things Are, Dr Seuss, etc, etc, etc but they're bringing home apparently the whole ORT 1+ range comprising of nothing but CVC words which present no challenge and no learning opportunity either, is reading them:

(1) a waste of time, reading time is precious, doesn't it make more sense to spend it on reading words which present a learning opportunity?

(2) potentially leading towards reading becoming uninteresting

(3) promoting ignorance - if the child can read the names of countries already the child could be reading sentences like: The Nile is the longest river in the world, instead of sentences like Dot got a pot and Bot got Dot's pot. Pat pat pat, tap tap tap.

In summary, would the time be better spent reading something useful?

'phones' = phonemes. Sorry, been a long half term.....

Out of interest, with a typical-bright child, how long would you teachers say it takes to learn to read (to a reasonable fluency)?

I ask because I would say I didn't try to teach ds to read at all before he started school (he knew his letters and the sounds they make but nothing beyond the first bits of Jolly Phonics and obviously - well to me, anyway - I read to him absolutely loads) - and by the end of yr 1 I would call him a fluent reader (ORT stage 10/11 ish?) as were most of my friends' dcs.

It's just that learnandsay says she has been teaching her dd to 'read' for two years now and it doesn't sound at all like she is yet what I would call a 'fluent reader' (able to read any picture book with expression and comprehension and with no sounding out or guessing) so I suppose my question is: is two years' worth of being taught to read before even starting school really a bit young and they'll learn much more quickly later?

To answer your OP learnsay, it seems very clear that simplistic phonic books are exactly what you daughter needs as she's in the early stages of learning to read (as are most 4 year olds in the UK) and good, accurate phonic teaching by someone who has been trained in it like her teacher will help her learn to read.

DD has been reading for just over a year (well that was when I realised she could read at a basic level, she might have been reading longer I guess...)

She has progressed from "A cat sat on a mat" level to Frog and Toad being the hardest books she reads...

She reads reading chest books at ORT5 as I am trying to go nice and slow with it tbh...

She is 4 and in reception btw....

SOunds about right, Simpson...

Some children can go from complete non readers to fluent (gold book band) in as little as 2 terms in reception KitKatGirl

Well, yes, that's my point. Once they're ready and receiving good teaching at school with lots of practise at home, they can learn to read very quickly!

DD was one of those, mrz.

It's an 'as long as a piece of strong' question to some extent, but i would definitely say that the age of the OP's child and the approach she is taking are probably contributing to relatively slow progress this far. I'm sure that with proper phonics teaching, a love of books instilled from home and school in partnership, and not too much confusion introduced by conflicting methods, she will accelerate over the coming year.

Definitely, 'as long as a piece of string'...but you voiced what I was trying to say teacher :-)

The thing is I don't really feel like I have taught her (although I suppose I have as I point out sounds etc) but she just picks it up so quickly, it's scary...

DS on the other hand started school unable to read even his name (Aug born) and really struggled with reading until Easter in reception and from May to July went up 5 book bands...

He is in yr3 now and one of the best readers.

I believe very strongly that a child will learn to read when they are ready (barring no problems) and you cannot force/speed it up.

I want to teach both my kids a love of reading rather than how to but DD was sooo ready (having taught herself the basics) that I just spoke to her teacher (when she was in nursery) and pointed out sounds in books as we came across them...

learnandsay, I really recommend learning the phonics properly yourself if you want to carry on teaching your daughter. Otherwise she will have gaps/get confused/carry on reciting/getting stuck etc etc. Phonics is foolproof, that's the joy of it. Yes, there are exceptions, but they are exceptions, having the foundations in place is priceless.

An easy way to do it is to get the RWI booklets that systematically teach the sounds, each book has a different sound, including the ones your DD doesn't know yet. They probably go completely against your love of books method, but it is a means to an end and as you say your DD will pick it up quickly. And the kids love phonics, DS is quite an expert, he gives me and DD lessons with the RWI phonics cards.

As far as other stuff in this thread (interesting reading ), I would keep the comments short in the reading diary. And then I would hope they can put your DD on a more appropriate level soon. This might be tricky to assess if she has approached reading from a different way than most, but getting her phonics solid and her independent reading (not reciting) strong should be your priority. She probably doesn't need to read Stage 1+ but you might find it in her interests to read from about Stage 5 and to cover the phonics she doesn't know properly.

My DD can recite lots of books (she is nearly 4 and has an amazing memory), she can't read anything.

yep, DS did that, Jan-July, job done (sort of... ). Actually bit of a cheat, he could do Bob Bug's Bag in July of nursery, but not sure that counts for much.....

In my last reception class only one child could read in September. One mum came to see me at Christmas worried her son wasn't reading or even showing any interest in reading. By Easter he was confidently reading purple book band and by the end of reception he had just moved onto white books. Another child in the same class moved from not knowing any sounds in September to reading and writing at NC level 2 in the summer

Out of DD's class (80 in the class) only 2 started reception last month being able to read (DD and another boy and they are virtually at the same level)....

However a good friend of mines little boy (in the same class) has now progressed from not reading/blending at all to being on ORT2 in just a few weeks (this boy and DD did not start reception until 16th sept)...