Last teacher levelled their class way too high

[spreston]

Hi
Child has just entered Y3 and my OH met with their new teacher yesterday after school. Our child had level 3s across the board at the end of Y2 and we were led to believe that this was very good, above expectation.

New teacher has said that the Y2 teacher overinflated the levels last year and out of the 12 children that got level 3s only 2 actually deserved them. So we are told that our child may not make the expected 2 sub levels progress this year due to a slump in Y3 and because she is actually only a 2a in reading, 2b in writing and 2b in maths.

Is there anything that we can do? And how can this go unnoticed?
It is a good school in London, received outstanding at last oftsted but seems to have a lot of new, young and inexperienced teachers. May explain why the levelling was all wrong last year...

She wants to concentrate on sorting her staff out - the backbiting sounds terrible. I wouldn't want to work there.

Baffling and worrying that this is an outstanding school. Sounds very disjointed and poorly managed.

Hi Feenie:

spreston said: "The level 3s that my child got at the end of Y2 were all based on teacher assessment. I have no idea what the actual SATs scores are as the school has explained that it's all done by teacher assessment regardless of the results of the SATs papers. I used to be a school gov - that's why I know a bit about all this!"

So no I don't understand that the school have sent her a dedicated report of what KS1 SATs scores were sent to LEA.

It is this part of the process that I query Feenie.

Who's checking the communication between school & parent?

The School communicates data to LEA. But parent & LEA rarely communicate (usually just in the selection of schools - now usually just on line). So there is potential to fiddle this system. Especially as what is reported by cohort (so for entirety Y2 or Y6 at a school) is whole NC Levels (L2, L3, etc...) and there is no way a parent can directly access all scores, so they're told a score for their child and see an overview for that Year (y2 or y6) - but can't verify that the score they've received is the score reported to the LEA. We just take it on trust.

IMO it has always seemed to me that the first term of teaching is a bit of a recap of last year, & the new teacher is finding out about the capabilities of the pupils, so often DD1 gets work/reading books that are pretty easy. Sometime between Hallowe'en & Christmas the summer dip is reversed, the teacher starts to get a grasp of the kids as individuals & the class starts to progress.

It all seems rather early to be talking about adjusting levels, & indeed indepth talks with parents - teachers don't know their charges at all yet!

Once again, PastSellByDate, the official figures, legally required to be reproted by every state school in England are teacher assessment only.

So no I don't understand that the school have sent her a dedicated report of what KS1 SATs scores were sent to LEA.

The school are legally required to report to parents the same data that is reported to the LEA/government.

The School communicates data to LEA. But parent & LEA rarely communicate (usually just in the selection of schools - now usually just on line). So there is potential to fiddle this system.

Not really - it's laid out very specifically in the statutory documents, and heads can be prosecuted for not carrying out their statutory duties. There isn't really an incentive for schools to lie to parents, and I'm not sure why you have suggested it. It's certainly nothing to do with the OP's issue.

Especially as what is reported by cohort (so for entirety Y2 or Y6 at a school) is whole NC Levels (L2, L3, etc...)

No, it isn't. At Y2 in Reading, Writing and Maths level 2 has to be reported by sublevel - 2C, 2B or 2A.

I agree with you, Marysbeard - even the Head has seemed to say that the child will be back working at those levels by half term. That's why this Y3 teacher's behaviour is so extraordinary - dragging in parents and dramatically downgrading them all.

I agree Feenie there is something very odd about the Y3 teacher's behaviour.

The levels reported to parents at the end of Y2 are the same levels reported to the government and teacher assessment in Y2 is heavily moderated both internally and externally to ensure levels are accurate. Tests and tasks are merely there to support teacher's levels.

Feenie/ mrz:

Scores to LEA are moderated. I totally agree. But who moderates and independently verifies scores sent to parents?

Scores reported to parents (Yes NC Levels 2a, 2b, 2c or 3 - and very rarely L4 appear on the report to parents or are reported within the end of year report) but the breakdown of scores report for whole cohort (so all Y2 students SATs at a given primary - whether totally assessed by teacher or partially teacher assessment/ part test is irrelevant) at a school are whole values only: NC L1/ L2/ L3/ L4 (L4 being extremely rare).

It is not possible for a parent to identify their child's score within that whole school end of Y2 SAT summary for all pupils.

Therefore with nobody checking report from school to parent and with no parent able to understand securely where their child is in the general scores for Y2 end of year SATs - you can see that there is potential room for the following scenario:

School can tell virtually all parents your DC scored L3 but report accurate scores to LEA. LEA never checks what information is reported to parents with the parents (I'm certain of that fact). Therefore what's to stop a school saying whatever they like for end Y2 KS1 SATs? Parents are highly unlikelyl to check with all other parents regarding how their children did - it just isn't done.

Downgrade 12 pupils (as in the spreston example) at start Y3 and explain to parents I'm terribly sorry but the expectation is a NC Level 4a at end Y6 now. It's terribly difficult to make that jump to NC Level 5, as well.... Or put it off for the moment, hope for the best, but come Y6 - the pressure of the test most likely explains why DC didn't achieve expected NC Level 5....

The NC Level 4a thing at end Y6 KS2 SATs is again quite useful because although parents will get a report (which I presume will give NC Level 4 sub-levels) the overall report for the schools KS2 SATs that year is by whole number only and parents cannot access where their child is within that data.

I'm not saying this happens everywhere or even at all - I'm just saying this is the hole in the system and it's perfectly possible because the data given to parents isn't idependently confirmable - we have one source for our data and we cannot check it's veracity (one could go down the FOI route but who has the time/ money?).

Independent testing (often unannounced - so pupil arrives at school to find they will be tested that day) where scores are reported direct to parents as well as School/ LEA or regional authority is the solution in other countries.

PastSellByDate the levels reported to parents at the end of Key Stages (Y2 & Y6) are provided by the Department of Education.

Remember schools do not have to provide levels for other year groups.

PastSellybyDate,

I really don't understand what you are saying.

For my children at the end of Year 2 or Year 6, I was given the data provided by the DofE FOR MY CHILD at a sublevel level of data if Level 2 (KS1) or Level 4 (KS2).

e.g. DS was 3 for reading, 2a for writing, 3 for maths.

At the end of Year 6, I was also given a full breakdown of teacher assessment levels and externally marked test levels for each subject - as it happened, DS got the same levels in the external tests as his tracher assessment (5 / 5 / 6, so no sublevels, though he would have got them had he scored within Level 4), but I know that was not the case for others, and all that data IS given to parents [so your scenario of 'independent testing where scores are reported to parents as well as school / LEA' already happens, although that score is not the only information reported to parents as teacher assessment is reported as well.

I was then given the whole school's average data, against the previous year's national and LEA data (since that year's national and LEA data is not available at that point).

I don't need to 'find my child in the average score', I was GIVEN my child's individual score.

If you are implying that schools could falsify the DofE data sent out to parents about individual children, then that is an extremely serious accusation against the school....

Hang on - have I got this right - are you seriously suggesting that a school would report level 3s to parents, but 2As to the authority, so that a 4A is fine for the DfE but not fine for parents? Why? What an strange level of subterfuge to end up ultimately pissing parents off hugely?

You seem to be displaying an unusual amount of paranoia in that scenario, PastSellByDate.

Independent testing - are you seriously suggesting that 7 year olds should have tests sprung on them with no warning? That would mean a huge backwards step for Y2 assessment, and put a ridiculous amount of the pressure on very young children, and for what? A ridiculously narrow snapshot? That's why teacher assessment was developed at KS1, to look at the child's whole attainment on a day to day basis.

PSD I'm not saying this happens everywhere or even at all - I'm just saying this is the hole in the system and it's perfectly possible because the data given to parents isn't idependently confirmable - we have one source for our data and we cannot check it's veracity (one could go down the FOI route but who has the time/ money?).

Of course the data is confirmable - the school will have the evidence in the children's books, tracked against assessment criteria.
I could verify any of my Y2 children's levels because I have their Y2 books. (We will send old books home during this term - as soon as we have sufficient evidence to support levels of children in our current classes.)

well, it affects the school but I cant work out how you think it affects your child?

He is still as able as he was before he was "downgraded". The next skill he needs to develop is still the same as it was, and the gcses he is likely to get are unchanged!!! Because he is as bright and able as he is. Just because it has been scored incorrectly at the end of year 2 is a bit of a nightmare for the school, but I really cant see how it affects you at all.

mrz/ teacherwith2kids:

My DDs' KS1 SATs data was prepared by school. The DfE did not send me their results. The LEA did not send me their results.

Should we be getting KS1 SATs results direct from LEA or DfE to our home? Because that's not happening here - it's definitely on school letterhead and coming direct from school.

This is in England by the way.

PSBD Are you determined to uncover some sort of massive conspiracy theory here? I don't see that it matters who actually passed on the results to you. The results you received are what your child was assessed at, you can be sure of that.

PastSEllByDate did your school give you a print out of your child's NC levels at the end of year 2?

mrz:

one year just in end of school report.

One year, because I was more aware of the law, I requested it 2 days before end of school year. A letter was prepared - word for windows document thing - not obviously from anything official like the DfE or LEA.

The issue for me is schools may be telling parents what they want to hear - rather than what is actual. Doesn't make a difference at all to the child - they don't know different - but a nasty shock to parents once their DCs enter senior school or try for 11+. Very hard on parents who thought their little dears were doing well.

Are you seriously suggesting that the school are seriously giving you one set of levels for your child and then reporting a different set officially?

What would they possibly hope to achieve from this!?

BTW, are you usually on the hunt for conspiracy therories...?

Hi letseatgrandma:

Let's see - reporting to LEA NC Level 2x but telling parent Level 3 - means parents are happy and school only obliged to achieve NC Level 4 at KS2 Sats.

Teacher's at our school at least are endlessly telling us how hard achieving an NC Level 5 is. School averages 10% achieving NC Level 5 in English or Maths.

But the parents wouldn't be happy when their child didnt achieve it, nor would they be on track to achieve it along the way.

As I said before - an extraordinary level of subterfuge which will just ultimately piss parents off. What school would want to go to so much bother just to upset parents? It doesn't make any sense at all.

I taught Y3 10 years ago and was told that they had to exaggerate the SATS results due to having to reach LA's targets. Totally sucked but it was part of the ridiculous system and its trickle-down effects on teaching and learning.

Feenie:

there's no real subterfuge because at start Y3 the spreston scenario very similar to that described by spreston was played out for Mum's of the bright kids (which by the way never included my DD1). Parents will be thrilled when their DC goes on to get a NC Level 5, because the downgrading is carefully explained to them,so their expectations are only for NC Level 4 for KS2 SATs.

These kids will most likely go on to achieve NC Level 5 (DD1's class now Y5 so we'll wait and see) which will be above expectations for the school which officially reported NC Level 2x at end KS1.

Not much effort - for a lot of rewards on the league tables.

But you can't downgrade at level 3 - only in an internal way, as described by spreston. But that won't matter to the official stats; those children still have to get a level 5 as a minimum requirement, so no rewards.

You still haven't explained the motivation a school may have for such extraordinary behaviour as reporting one level to parents and one to the LEA. And the motivation would have to be huge, or the Head would face prosecution. And over KS1 assessment? Don't think so.