Last teacher levelled their class way too high

[spreston]

Hi
Child has just entered Y3 and my OH met with their new teacher yesterday after school. Our child had level 3s across the board at the end of Y2 and we were led to believe that this was very good, above expectation.

New teacher has said that the Y2 teacher overinflated the levels last year and out of the 12 children that got level 3s only 2 actually deserved them. So we are told that our child may not make the expected 2 sub levels progress this year due to a slump in Y3 and because she is actually only a 2a in reading, 2b in writing and 2b in maths.

Is there anything that we can do? And how can this go unnoticed?
It is a good school in London, received outstanding at last oftsted but seems to have a lot of new, young and inexperienced teachers. May explain why the levelling was all wrong last year...

I don't understand what OP wants to do, or wants to be done by others. Find the right procedure for complaining? I don't understand why this is an issue for the parents, bit of bother admin for the school, that's all.

It would seem I have the only child in England who was ever (cough cough) under-graded in KS1 SATs. I was told emphatically by his y3 teacher that his y2 SATs did not reflect his true ability, he was much more able than the SATs suggested.

I am so glad our school doesn't report Levels except in statuatory yrs.

Hello all and thanks for all the replies so far.

The level 3s that my child got at the end of Y2 were all based on teacher assessment. I have no idea what the actual SATs scores are as the school has explained that it's all done by teacher assessment regardless of the results of the SATs papers. I used to be a school gov - that's why I know a bit about all this!

The issue I have is that my child was explicitly told she was working at above the level for her age by her previous teacher. She was therefore proud and happy about this. Not that her Y3 teacher has told her anything about her levels (which I think is the right thing to do) but she has expressed TO ME that they were too high. It isn't only my child who has been levelled too high at the end of Y2, it's about 11/12 children. The Y2 teacher, I am told, is to receive further training in levelling work this year. This I have been told by the Y2 TA. So, it is a problem within the school that SHOULD have been addressed long before the end of last year not now...

This I have been told by the Y2 TA.

Whaaaaaaat?!!

I'll repeat what I said last night:
"Can I ask again if the Head knows what the Yr 3 teacher has been saying? Mine would go bananas! It reflects really badly on the school."

And now the Year 2 TA is gossiping about the teacher!! What kind of school is this?

I am beginning to feel quite sorry for this Y2 teacher.

It appears the Y3 teacher and TA are extremely unprofessional.

Extraordinary behaviour from all staff concerned. I am truly agog as to what this head is going to say. Truly cannot get my head round it all.

Leaving another class teacher to deal alone with this incident amounts to little more than unprofessional gossip - if this has occurred as described then this is very serious, and there should be more appropriate methods of informing parents.

The TA is way, way out of line, and has absolutely no business talking about any teacher in this way. She could easily be subject to disciplinary procedures for her actions.

I'm not saying that parents shouldn't be informed, far from it - but the way that it has been done is truly extraordinary and completely unprofessional.

It's not as trivial as 'it happens', either - actually, it really doesn't, and certainly not to 12 children at a time. Y2 teachers are usually subject to more moderation and scrutiny that anyone else in the school, and have to explain their judgements more than anybody.

Is the poor year 2 teacher still there at the school? Sounds a bit scape goating and bullying to me....

By that logic I should be annoyed that I was that DS was recorded as only X when he was actually Y in ability; DS & I missed out in the opportunity to be "proud and happy".

Sorry, I still don't get the importance of it, for individual ordinary parents & children.

I do understand if OP is a governor & is concerned that the school not mess up their admin so much in future.

The importance of levelling is to enable children to progress at a steady pace without gaps in their knowledge or getting bored, both of which are detrimental to long-term achievement outcomes.

I was very about my Y4 DD bringing home an ORT stage 12 reading book yesterday (which she read in about 5 minutes flat). I know her English class teacher is desperate to keep the children who are ahead in reading back while the rest catch up... it doesn't really work that way, though, because DD finishes off her school reading book and goes straight on to her home reading of Noel Streatfield or Joan Aiken...

Before Feenie gets excited - this is for lljkk

As I understand it spreston's school rated children NC Level 3 (say 12 are rated this) at end Y2. This is in the school's interest as it looks good on official stats for school at end KS1. (especially if children are arriving into this primary working at above national expectations - formally assessed against EYFS in nurseries).

Unofficially school reduces levels at start of Y3. This is in the individual teacher's interest because achieving two sub-levels progress for that pupil then becomes a doddle - the teacher actually is only achieving one sub-level. This reducing of one sub-level at start of Y3 - also reduces parental expectations at end KS2 - "Look Mrs. PSBD your DD started Y3 a 2a - the expectation is she'll achieve a 4a, not a 5 at end KS2" - no joke this is a direct quote from my Y3 parent/ teacher conference when I asked what we might expect DD1 to achieve end KS2.

I've had a number of conversations about how NC Level 4 is the expectation at end of KS2, not Level 5. So my impression is that there is no incentive to achieve Level 5. Schools usually publically only report LEVEL 4 and above scores - it's only a small minority that openly report Level 5 scores on their websites - however you can dig this info out from DfE:

2010 - earlier performance tables here: www.education.gov.uk/performancetables/index.shtml

What is concerning is that by law a parent is supposed to receive a statement of the KS1 SATs scores (regardless of whether they're 100% teacher assessment or some different proportion) as reported to the LEA. My query to spreston is did you receive a sheet with your child's KS1 SATs results, the school's KS1 SATs results that year and the national KS1 SATs results that year? Because that is what you should have been sent - and it is a legal requirement.

Can I ask a simple question - wouldn't it be a better system if the next teacher was obliged to raise at least 2 sub-levels from the rating of the previous teacher? School management were obliged to moderate the the end of year NC Levels/ SATs for each year and the LEA are obliged to inspect the process (preferably randomly and unannounced). Oh and a teacher doesn't get their automatic increment unless >30% improve more than 2 sub-levels?

I know - it will never happen. But I suspect parents would love it.

Unofficially school reduces levels at start of Y3. This is in the individual teacher's interest because achieving two sub-levels progress for that pupil then becomes a doddle - the teacher actually is only achieving one sub-level. This reducing of one sub-level at start of Y3 - also reduces parental expectations at end KS2 - "Look Mrs. PSBD your DD started Y3 a 2a - the expectation is she'll achieve a 4a, not a 5 at end KS2"

No, PastSellByDate - the school would be absolutely crucified for not ensuring children make 2 full levels progress between Y2 and Y6. It is now the be all and end all to the government and Ofsted that this is achieved. A school that tried to reduce levels at Y3 and use that as an excuse would be seen as failing.

Before Feenie gets excited - this is for lljkk

Not getting excited - merely correcting your misinformation, again for everybody, not just lljkk.

My query to spreston is did you receive a sheet with your child's KS1 SATs results, the school's KS1 SATs results that year and the national KS1 SATs results that year? Because that is what you should have been sent - and it is a legal requirement.

She has repeatedly told you that she received her child's KS! assessment results - that is what is required by law. To report the test results as well is a school's individual choice, but gives a prominence to the tests that misrepresents the nature of KS1 assessment, and isn't really great practice.

Can I ask a simple question - wouldn't it be a better system if the next teacher was obliged to raise at least 2 sub-levels from the rating of the previous teacher?

Most schools use this as an aspirational target per year group.

Pay per results if that was not achieved is a pretty silly idea because there are many reasons why the 2 sublevel increase may not happen (newly arrived from another school/country, emotional problems at home, poor attendance, etc, etc, etc). Too many factors are out of a teacher's control.

"Can I ask a simple question - wouldn't it be a better system if the next teacher was obliged to raise at least 2 sub-levels from the rating of the previous teacher?"

That would be a stupid idea because children with learning difficulties make slow progress than the gifted and talented. The special I used to work at aimed for one sub level of progress over two years. A local SPLD (severe/profound learning difficulties) school sub divides the sub levels an aims for progress of 1/9 of a sub level over two years.

Children's progress goes in fits and spurts. The expectation that a child should make one level of progress over two years is reasonable for an average ablity child. (Ie 3 sub levels in 2 years is an average of 1.5 sublevel a year) Some gifted children make a full level of progress every year at primary school.

"Oh and a teacher doesn't get their automatic increment unless >30% improve more than 2 sub-levels?"

Teachers only get this "automatic" increment for the first few years of their career. After that, and once they've passed the threshold to extra responsibility points, they stagnate in salary terms. Oh, unless the government award us any crumbs in line with inflation.

That aside, can you explain why a teacher should forego an incremental point due to, say, the marital break-ups/home porblems of various children in their class, which might have contributed towards the lack of (measurable) progress.

What did the head say?

We target 2 sublevels a year during KS2.

A few children make more than this, often due to specific interventions targeting an area in which a child has a specific difficulty.

Some children don't make target, and make 1 sublevel or even less. Reasons are often outside the school's control - admitted to care, parent in prison, domestic violence, failure to provide adequate food or sleep or other basic needs such as glasses or prescribed hearing aids are recent examples.

However, children don't make linear progress even when their home lives are smooth - they may make a spurt, then they consolidate or an area of weakness is uncovered or addressed or the progress was built on shaky foundations and needs to be revisited, or they have been using a method [e.g. sight recognition of words for reading, or some informal ethods for calculating] which doesn't 'scale up' to the next level and so the child has to go backwards for a little to go forwards again, or alternatively they just 'get it' and surge ahead.... lots of reasons.

Well met with the head who has met with other parents this week as well regarding this. Head said they are full of confidence in the Y2 teacher's assessments of particular pieces of work however they may have not been enough examples of independent work on which to base these levels. The Y2 teacher was off sick twice last year, each time for six weeks or so. The supply teacher they got in didn't seem to encourage independent work enough.

Head is sure our child will be producing much more independent writing this term and will easily meet the criteria of a level 3 before half term.
So I don't really know what to think. Will hope to catch a few of the other parents concerned on Monday.

That sounds like she is backing both teachers' opinions!

Or that she's practising for an alternative career in PR.