Last teacher levelled their class way too high

[spreston]

Hi
Child has just entered Y3 and my OH met with their new teacher yesterday after school. Our child had level 3s across the board at the end of Y2 and we were led to believe that this was very good, above expectation.

New teacher has said that the Y2 teacher overinflated the levels last year and out of the 12 children that got level 3s only 2 actually deserved them. So we are told that our child may not make the expected 2 sub levels progress this year due to a slump in Y3 and because she is actually only a 2a in reading, 2b in writing and 2b in maths.

Is there anything that we can do? And how can this go unnoticed?
It is a good school in London, received outstanding at last oftsted but seems to have a lot of new, young and inexperienced teachers. May explain why the levelling was all wrong last year...

There are clearly some schools who teach to the test. There are also secondaries who spend so long recovering Y6 work that our ex-Y6s come back complaining of being bored to tears. I took part in a project where 20 Y7 teachers observed my teaching for half a term and revised their own syllabus to raise expectations considerably, having been amazed at the standard of work.

All this is completely different to Y2 assessments in the same school which set the standard for the next 4 years.

I recently had a marvellously enjoyable frank and robust exchange of views with dd's science teacher who tried to justify the fact that she went from a 5c at the end of Year 6, down to a 4a mid-way through YEAR 9!! He said that the KS2 (externally-marked) SATs (although this was backed up by the TA done by her extremely competent outstanding Advanced Skills teacher in Year 6) were a load of rubbish and didn't count for anything.

Funny how the levels never go up when these people are trying to cover their backs early on complaining about the inaccuracy of levelling, isn't it?

If it had been Year 7, I might have let it go. But she was Year 9. And I truly despaired when she was then given a high 6 the next term - still rubbish progress for 3 years but still.
If he'd have just said, "I've no idea who your dd even is and I've made these levels up" I would have had more respect for him.

"Level 3 at keystage 1 is different to a level 3 at key stage 2"

The work may well be similar but the working conditions are very different. For example there are far fewer TAs in juniors. At my son's school TAs in juniors do one to one work with small groups or the SEN kids. Also children are expected to work faster and more independenly in keystage 2.

The work assessed at Y2 or Y3 would be independent, not supported. Teacher assessments are not timed in Y2 or Y3.

It doesn't matter whether the Y3 teacher's expectations of speed/maturity are different, that should not affect assessment procedures in any way between Y2 and Y3.

Should not and cannot affect assessment procedures.

My son produced excellent work in year 2 because there was a TA who breathed down his neck.

His work was poorer in the early stages of year 3 because he was a lazy sod who needed a rocket up his bum

"Should not and cannot affect assessment procedures. "

Prehaps in theory, However I don't think the teacher assessments that happen in september are as rigorous as SATs assessment at the end of year 2. I am just trying to think of possible reasons for the dip. Assessment is qualitive thing and I trying to suggest possible reasons for the dip in national curriculum levels.

Can you ask for exact sub levels at the end of year 2. A drop from a 3c to a 2a is not that bad. there aren't that many marks between a high 2b and a low 3c.

Agree with everything Feenie says. I'd be worried about a school that is only just beginning to think about moderating levels across the school. In my LA we can't submit our KS1 SATs data until we 'be had out work sample moderated in school and in our local cluster: Y2 and Y 3 teachers have to go so it's all agreed. No moaning afterwards about levels being inflated.

That's on a test though, ReallyTired - Y2 assessment is now solid teacher assessments. The tests are a very small piece of evidence.

Now in the old days (pre2005) the only comparison between Y2 and Y3 was the tests, and you would have been right in saying a level 3 was different. One was timed, the other wasn't.

Y3 teachers have sometimes been slow to pick up on teacher assessing to look at the whole picture without just testing to get a narrow snapshot.

reallytired the OP said that the Y3 teacher had based her assessments on work done in Year 2.

Sounds to me as if there are some serious "ishoos" in this school.

I agree.

"...because she is actually only a 2a in reading, 2b in writing and 2b in maths"

When did a 2a become "only"?

Hi spreston:

First of all I'm slightly confused - you say you've looked back through your child's work (previously assessed as NC Level 3) and now think it's a Level 2. Which is fine - but how did your DC do on his/ her KS1 SATs.

It's a whole other issue whether Y2 teachers do or do not teach to SATs - and I suspect the profession is divided and of course job pressure may also be a factor.

But putting that aside - and with the proviso that I can only speak about our school - it has been my experience that every year without fail my children move back at least one sub-level. The school policy is that there should be 14 points progress (so 14 sub-levels on NC Levels - e.g. 4c to 4b = 1 sub-level) through Y1 - Y6, which we're informed is 'slightly above government expectations'. Although others have said at least 3 sub-levels should be expected in Y1 and Y2 in KS1. The school expects a minimum of 2 sub-levels progress per pupil per year - and the teachers are accounatable to the Head for that. This seems to generate a system where the NC Level is slightly reduced in September, so that there's one NC sub-level improvement in time for first parent/ teacher consultations if not Christmas and another NC sub-level in time for second parent/ teacher consultations if not end of year report card.

It so predictable that I've totally loss faith with it.

My reality cheque is Campaign for Real Education's curriculum for primary schools here: www.cre.org.uk/primary_contents.html. This is 'gold standard' and most likely your school isn't working to this - but it does clearly outline what in theory is possibly to achieve each year of primary school. Although I must add that it is slightly concerning that Y6 curriculum descriptions are so thin. Nevertheless this is a nice yard stick against which to measure your child's work that school year. (In general if nothing for your DC's year has been covered that's a concern, if only a little has been covered that's a bit disappointing, if most has been covered that's reassuring and if all has been covered, you lucky thing! Your DC is at an exceptional school).

HTH

PastSellByDate - KS1 assessments are teacher assessment, and mostly from work produced independently. The tests are a tiny part of the process, so
Y2 teachers cannot 'teach to the test'.

Feenie:

Did not apply in our case because DD1 couldn't even subtract so multiplication was way out of her league - but Teacher in Y2 informed several parents whose children had mastered x2, x5 and x10 that this was all that would be taught. Other times tables were for Y3.

So I'm sorry - teachers do teach to the test - so far and no further has been our experience.

That's impossible, since the tests are a very small part of the teacher assessment. It would make no difference. Some LEAs won't even use the tests as evidence for assessment; they want to ensure that the teacher fully understands and uses teacher assessment effectively.

You asked why the Y3 teacher looked at past work as evidence for assessment - I've told you why

I think you are confusing the issue with teachers who limit their expectations in what they teach children from the National Curriculum. That's terrible practice, I agree - but nothing to do with teaching to the test.

I think the issue here is the year 3 teacher openly criticising the year 2 teacher. That would worry me far more than the grades which I pay no attention to anyway - I have four children and NONE of them have any idea what levels they were on (in fact neither do I )

Sorry Feenie maybe I've misunderstood - I wrote to spreston who I assume is A PARENT not a teacher and said I'm not sure how you can assess her DC's work (which is what she said she has done) and simply asked how did your DC do on KS1 SATs.

I think your second post hits the nutshell. I see limited expectations as definitely teaching to the test. He/ she teaches this far because that's what he/ she is being reviewed on (by KS1 SATs scores - which I accept may now be almost entirely teacher assessment) and no further. And that's my problem. It's about reducing curriculum to what is tested. I would love to believe the teachers in front of my DDs are professional. I do believe they're trying their best - but I've never in 5+ years said Wow what a great thing you're doing in school today. Genuinely more effort and imagination is put into the Christmas play than teaching history or science. I am deeply despondent about it all - it is such a waste of opportunity.

Oh an Feenie to top it all school have sent home a 100 page workbook to every child with no instructions/ ideas - children just verbally told to put something in each week to show they're working on things at home. Apparently government has removed homework requirement so this is it for us in terms of homework from here on out. Parents who don't want homework are thrilled. Parents who do are left to their own devices. Teachers seem happy - such an effort putting a sticker on a workbook page - and that was 'marking' at our school.

Sorry Feenie maybe I've misunderstood - I wrote to spreston who I assume is A PARENT not a teacher and said I'm not sure how you can assess her DC's work (which is what she said she has done) and simply asked how did your DC do on KS1 SATs

The OP has said exactly what her dd's levels were in KS1 assessments, which are assessed using largely normal everyday independent work. There is no separate level recorded for the tests because they are such a small part of the assessment (a handful of schools still do this, but it's not great practice and sends out the wrong message.)

Feenie

I wouldn't dream of assessing NC Levels for my own child's work - I'd just go by NC Levels on KS1 SATs. The parent said Level 3 across the board at end of KS2 - but didn't make that clear whether that was report card end of year assessment of statutory report of KS1 SATs scores as reported to LEA. We get both here.

I don't mean to upset you Feenie - I was just asking spreston why wouldn't she trust the SATs scores.

I'm not upset , PastSellByDate - just making it clear that KS1 assessment is not test only.