I feel I know so little about what and how DS (7) does at school - I want to see more of his work!

[gabsid]

I supported my DS all last year in maths and he progressed well. However, at the end of Y2 his teacher send home some worksheets and old tests. This was sooo helpful! I could see where he is going wrong much better than just practicing randomn Y2 topics.

We never saw any work, e.g. exercise books with targets and work in it. When speaking to his teacher over the year I could see that they are doing several worksheets per week but I never saw any of that work - it would have been helpful to see what he does in school and to support him.

It would have been great if these worksheets would have been stuck in an exercise book or folder and send home with the homework tasks - they had an extra homework book for only homework.

I find it quite irritating not to see any of DC work at school? Can I expect any change next year in junior school?

mrs z -that must be a toughie when each teachers different and the others rather pollyanna and everything great then you seen as the mean critical teacher.

yes the truth sometimes hurts but like to have all the facts.

as a teacher i imagine if a parent too you feel bit more relaxed and confident about your childs schooling as you have the knowledge,

The national curriculum to me seems vast and complex.

apart from teachers where else to we get info from.

other parents in playground-quite often im asked questions and other parents expect me to know the answer.

mumsnet or other internet forums

im summerising about 44 being above.

some children have different strengths, so may score high literacy but poor in maths.

I do know least 6other people in her class on lower reading level on the books.

I do know 2of the younger kids in year group in separate small class have got higher.

I do know 2kids that should be in her class next year are moving up a class due to being a higher level.

I do know most of her close freinds are on higher reading levels.

I cant say how they doing for science, writing ,maths but is suspect if higher level reading book then they hitting higher scores on reading

I do know my dd responds well to repetition sometimes takes bit longer to sink in. She thrives on one to one attention and positive praise.

we spend lot of time boosting her confidence praising her.

you know what i would have found helpful.

is parents talk or even booklet home saying transition from foundation to key stage 1

what they will cover that year.

what to expect.

what the levels mean

how to support your child.

then maybe same and of year 2 when moving onto keystage 3 and year 6preparing child for secondry.

The one thing that concerned me in explore is said there maybe some disparity between levels they set child at and what school sets them at.it did seem lot of independant non tutor computer based learning .

kumon seems more academically rigourous and ideal to get dd top grips with numbers in quite short space of time.

parents use these schemes as they worried.
they want checks and balances
they feel its way of accessing the teacher and helping their child.

perhaps if schools did more then they wouldent be as popular.

i just wondered how much time in school day is actual learning.

as imagine every primary has to do same thing.

especially with the core maths, literacy and science?
at secondry i always knew i had 4hours pe a week, 2hours history, 4hours pe but at primary do they teach as separate topics or blend them all into topics?

the school day doesnt increase in juniors but does the workload change do they still do same amount of hours on each subject?

The government have published a new draft curriculum and Mr Gove has announced his intention to scrap NC levels ... so watch this space.

In the meantime

www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/DCSF-00267-2010.pdf

www.education.gov.uk/publications/eOrderingDownload/DCSF-00266-2010.pdf

What do you imagine happens at school mam? What would children be doing if they weren't 'actually learning'?

Kumon maths is a series of worksheets that children progress through - both at the Kumon centre and every night at home. Whilst I have seen children become better at using the 4 operations through Kumon, it doesn't seem extend their mathematical knowledge (i.e. how to use the knowledge in real life).

Most primary schools do 1hr maths a day - how could they 'do more'?!

The school day does increase in juniors - it's about 1 1/4 hrs longer.

My school week, roughly, is: 8 hours phonics/lit activities (e.g. reading, story, handwriting), 5 hours maths, 4 hrs humanities/science, 1 hr music/RE, 2 hrs PE, 2 hrs art/DT/outside activities, 1 1/2 hr assembly, 1 hr ICT
So children are kept busy learning all the time.

DS's infants school allowed parents to go in every Thursday, straight after school to look at books and have an informal chat with the teacher who was around. If there is an issue then you book an appointment for another evening because these aren't confidential, other parents are around. They are billed as a chance for the children to show off their work more than anything but you get to see what they are doing. There were also 2 parents' evenings (autumn and spring terms) plus the report in the summer term and an open evening where you just basically went in to have a look and meet the next teacher. Books were always available to look at.

In addition they had annual curriculum evenings for literacy and numeracy to say what and how they were teaching in the year.

Juniors is a bit different as they can't have one evening when anybody can come in after school due to the after school clubs but you can arrange, via the Homelink book to go in any time for a look at books. They do termly meetings on what is happening across the curriculum just for that term and also little open afternoons, for the last hour of the day about once a term where the children do a little show about what they have done and maybe do some activities with the parents. There is again, the parents' evening in autumn and spring and the report in the summer.

I suppose they are particularly open then if this is not the norm. I don't know any better really and thought that everywhere was like this as it is the same as how it was when I was at school decades ago!

They have only recently started giving out the levels though. Before it was below, at or exceeding expectations but you didn't any hard data for that, just wishy washy words which is a bit frustrating. I'm afraid the way I got round that was to become a governor. They tell you everything then because they know you understand, but that isn't possible for all parents, even if they wanted to!! I think, the trick is to know what questions to ask, which, if you don't know how the school works is difficult. In the OP's shoes I would be asking for the levels at the very least. TBH I am not too bothered about what they are doing in the national curriculum so long as they are making progress. I think to an extent you have to trust the teachers to get on with it and rely on them to be teaching the right stuff at the right time. If that happens your child will make progress. If you don't trust them maybe your child isn't at the right school, I don't know. Tough call really.

Aplogies flexybex if I annoyed you enough to cause such a flippant sarcastic slightly snappy response, just have to hope get better reaction from my dd school.

dd goes to primary the juniors start and finsih at same time.
my dd currently year 2 so last year infants part from playgrounds had no idea juniors did more? :(

I do realise they at school 'learning'! That they are busy!
sometimes think nc means they try to sqeeze too much it at too early and age think they shouyld focus on the basics and get them covered well but nc is system we have and one we currently have to adhere too.

bertha-your school sounds good.

im on pta but dont learn as much as the governers.

Juniors will have 15 minutes less play each day.

Our Junior children have a shorter lunch break in addition to finishing school 10 mins later than the infants.

Same as mrz (as well as 15 mins less play).

Sorry mam, don't mean to sound annoyed (because I'm not ).

Sorry to hijack this thread, but our KS1 have just had their afternoon play removed (15m) so are doing pretty much the same as KS2 now.

KS1/2 start at 8.45, have 50 minutes for lunch and 15 minutes in the morning, but the loss of the 15 minute play hasn't been added on anywhere. KS1 finish at 3.25 and KS2 at 3.30-it feels like we (I'm the Y1 teacher) are doing more hours than other KS1 classes.

Is this very different to other school or is there a lot of variation? I always thought there should be a more substantial difference between teaching time in the two key stages, but our headmaster disagrees with me ;)

Ahh I see that would explain when im running late for pickup sprinting down school road the junior parents are casually meandering along, chatting with no sign of panic or urgency then.
The juniors come out round the back other side of school while infant parents wait in bottom playground.

No worried flex sometimes things seem different in print more snappy then intended.

Thanks for breakdown of school day it is a lot.13hours of literacy and numeracy.23hours of lesson time per week yet .
daughters is currently 6hours 15mins per day 9.-3.15 5days a week.total 31hours a week so the other 8hours is breaks, lunches, assembly. approx 1hour half a day non lesson time.

you know what I find sad is how little other subjects manage to get,.
2hours pe doesnt seem much when you think the uk has obesity problem. I imagine infants are quite time consuming with changing and dressing so that eats into the 2hours and you split the pe into 2hourly sessions so probably get in reality 40mins of actual exercise.
dds school has no after school sports but she does don 2hours of gym,cheer leading, walks to school most days and on sunny days quite active.

weird to think in a lot of countries year 2 is this first year of formal schooling as scandavian countries, even oz and usa is age 6 and we start at age 4.

I will of course think very carefully what i say to headmaster and dd teacher.
Dont wish to upset them or or proportion blame.
just want to work out where shes at, specific weak areas so we can work on them. I dont mind stepping up and doing more at home and be more of a player than a spectator if thats whats needed.

lets seat grandma that seems really sad that the key stage 1 lost afternoon play as they still little,

I know the seperate junior schools have later finish than infants just because logistically parents cant be 2places at same time.

But I think we have different times to another local school also primary as see a childminder who does that school leave quite late as our finish time is 3.15 for infants. we have to be there 8.55 but in reality doors dont open until 9most days.I think some local schools must finish at 3.30.

sometimes mad as this seems wonder if school day should be slightly longer like in some private schools.
so maybe 8.-45=4pm then between 4-5 optional after school clubs each day.

which would allow 1.5hour for lunch. and extra 15min break

where they get long lunchtime and option to do a club
extra playtime with their mates.
and at end of day extra sports or after schools club would make its bit less stressful spreading it out rather than trying to pack so much in.

Weird how the school day differs. Both the juniors and infants do 8.50 to 3.15pm here - same site so no being in 2 places at the same time issues. Juniors come out and find their parents at the infants. In the infants, morning break is 15 minutes, lunch is 1hour 10 minutes and afternoon break is 10 minutes (at 2.40pm which seems daft as it is so close to hometime but they must have their reasons). They seem quite lucky compared to some other schools. Juniors don't have an afternoon break and only 1 hour for lunch but the same morning break.

Here although in both schools they do literacy and numeracy in the mornings, that doesn't mean they aren't covering other subjects too. They have to read/write about something in literacy and they have recently tried to become topic driven rather than subject driven which the children and the staff seem to like. So, yr 3 did the Romans last term and a lot of their literacy work was focused on that. Seems to make sense to me. I must say I was surprised that wasn't what they did before and tried to keep all subjects separate. I suppose it is a bit harder in the infants because their reading and writing aren't as advanced and 'flexible' (not sure if that is the word I mean). They are still working on the basics so their skills aren't as adaptable to the subject.

Always interesting to read how other schools do things. I know the infants here is good (outstanding Ofsted and great all round school - fun for the children with lots of opportunities to do stuff that isn't all literacy and numeracy driven) but the juniors is 'only' satisfactory edging towards good, they hope, but compared to some schools we seem to very lucky. Sad that it does come down to luck and that despite league tables and SATs and Ofsted, there is such a big variation in the standard of schools or perhaps not the standards but the way they are run. I sometimes get the feeling from what some parents say on MN that the schools are being run for the benefit of the teachers and not the children. I hope they are the minority but still, it is a bit of a shame if your child is in one of those schools.

Our junior school is across the road and finishes 1/2 hour later.

As someone said, it would be good to have one hour per week to look at DC work, e.g. if I am generally worried about maths I could have a look at the topic and all DS's work to see how he did and practice at home if necessary.

Some said we should trust the teacher - however, I would have thought the teacher would appreciate a parent's involvement, especially with someone like DS who is dreamy, not listening and not so interested in maths! And therefore he was not achieving his best at school.

On the other hand, if I have a sensible, keen and mature child (like DD) who is trying hard and doing well then I feel I don't need to bother the teacher constantly.

i buy the Lett's workbooks for maths & english for their year group and get them to work through it bit by bit... just to keep an eye that they don't have any glaring gaps.
DD1 has always flown through them, DD2 not so... but it didn't take much effort on my part to explain to her. I am sure that little bit of attention has made sure she can keep up and is fairly crucial.

Just a small thing that I don't think anyone's mentioned,about taking books home: The books we have, at our school , are now used as a portfolio of the children's work.
We (saff) spend an inordinate amout of time cutting and sticking in worksheets or taking photos of group work , which then have to be printed out and stuck in and annotated to the correct books.
We used to have several different books for different things, now we only have two:-1 for any writing and 1 for anything to do with numeracy. (Oh,and one for handwriting practice).
These books (not the handwriting ones) now have to follow our children throughout their primary careers, and the old,finished books get sent on to the next teacher, instead of being sent home at the end of the year and starting a fresh one with the new class teacher.

Ofsted can (and usually will )ask to see the old books, so it is no longer possible to send the old ones home.

*staff not saff

Our school's new policy has been to keep a sample of books for Ofsted but send most home. They used to keep them all but they don't have the need or the space they say so now they've decided they should all come home. I wish they didn't. I wish they kept them all like the old days! What am I supposed to do with all those old books? I can't throw away all my DC's work, at least not yet it just seems wrong, but they are of no use or interested to either of us (meaning me or the DC).

Ah, this is a teachers' view/school policy and ofsted requirements, but what about the struggling/immature 7 year old who can't be bothered with maths or writing. And I feel its not much use to get the books at the end of the year. I do want the books though to keep for him when he is older and grown up.

The support at home helped him to be average, however he can calculate well but he isn't very good at applying it. Going through the old tests the school sent home I feel we still have to re-visit Level 2 work and looking at the dates of the tests I get the impression he doesn't know anything I haven't done with him at home.

I feel I have to work more closely with the school next year, see what they do on a regular basis and re-inforce it at home. That seems so much easier than practicing randomn topics.

gabsid...There are many seven year olds who can't see the point in maths and writing, my own son (DS2) was the same. However he came out with level 5's in all subjects at year 6 and is now doing very well indeed at secondary school. I didn't put in any extra time with him, I left that to his teachers, even though I was a TA in the school.
Why do you want the books for when he is "grown up"? What use will they be to him then?

gabsid - how do you know what is level 2 work? Our school, as I have said, tells us the levels, what the children are working on during the year, gives us all sorts of information plus the extra I glean from being a governor, but I have no idea what level an individual piece of work is or what is required for a particular level. TBH, I am not sure I need to know.

I do agree that your DS's school isn't doing much in the way of communication and that is worrying, but if you are not even trusting them to teach him without you working out the levels too and going over what they have done, then I think you have serious issues with your relationship with the school and you should be looking for another one. You really don't sound like you have any faith in them or what they do. That might be completely justified with this school but your interest in your DS's work, if he were at a decent school who were competent and getting the best out of your DS would be a little OTT. Is changing schools an option? Or maybe the juniors is a different school with a different head and better run?

By the way, believe me, when you are on your second child and you have every handwriting practice book, maths book, sketch book, literacy book, big write book plus art work for both children you do wonder why you are keeping them all and what the hell you are going to do with them!! The children have moved on. I am sure in 20 years time they might ponder for a couple of minutes how bad their writing was when they were 5 and why they wrote what they did but they won't care enough to want to take those books with them when they move out and get their own home. It seems wrong to throw them out, I do understand that but at the end of the day, it just becomes clutter and I have enough of that with my own crap stuff.

I keep a lot of my children's schoolwork, but I have had to narrow it down to certificates or noteworthy stuff rather than every single bit of artwork or old books...I have 3 children, it becomes impossible to keep everything. I always keep school reports ,though,as I think that maybe their own kids would like to see them in the future! I really hate throwing stuff away though!

I do keep my DC paintings/art work (the best of it anyway) and its just nice to have a momentum of the school work too.

How do I know DS is going to 'come out of it' and suddenly achieve well? I left him alone in R and Y1 because I think its too young and they may pick up, but 6/7 year olds? I think the statistics say that only 30% of those below average at the end of KS1 will be average or above at the end of KS2. So the odds would be against him.

I know what L2 maths work involves because I googeld the app grid and a couple of 'I can' statements. I did it because DS couldn't add up beyond 10 at the end of Y1 and all I got from the school was that he's 'fine' - now more. After DS had improved and I noticed he was still in the bottom group, all I got from the school was that he's 'fine' - then I felt I needed to find out for myself. Finally the teacher re-tested his maths and moved him up 3 groups! My trust is gone, I am afraid.

OK fair enough, gadsid. As I said, I recognise that that your DS's school may not be doing a great job but if you have to go to those lengths to find out what is gong on I still think there are issues with your relationship with the school that make me wonder if he wouldn't be better off elsewhere. It is good to be interested as a parent, of course it is, but you shouldn't feel the need to be checking up on them like this. Just my opinion of course but I do get how annoying 'fine' is. I hate that. I want to know facts and figures and I am with you on that, so please don't think I am criticising you. It is the school!.

I think if you check what is happening too often, then you lose sight of learning as a 'process'.
It's like being on a diet and checking how much weight you've lost every day.