I feel I know so little about what and how DS (7) does at school - I want to see more of his work!

[gabsid]

I supported my DS all last year in maths and he progressed well. However, at the end of Y2 his teacher send home some worksheets and old tests. This was sooo helpful! I could see where he is going wrong much better than just practicing randomn Y2 topics.

We never saw any work, e.g. exercise books with targets and work in it. When speaking to his teacher over the year I could see that they are doing several worksheets per week but I never saw any of that work - it would have been helpful to see what he does in school and to support him.

It would have been great if these worksheets would have been stuck in an exercise book or folder and send home with the homework tasks - they had an extra homework book for only homework.

I find it quite irritating not to see any of DC work at school? Can I expect any change next year in junior school?

YANBU.I request to see all of my 3 dc's work at parents evening before hand in order not to waste time on teachers scrabbling around finding books.I kid you not but at our 3 dc's parents evenings each teacher just sat back and said soooo what do you want to know?The minute you ask you go over to the dark side and become known as a pushy parent which is ridiculous.

As an ex teacher I have no idea how you give a detailed picture of achievement and progress without sharing books,levels,targets etc.

All parents should care and should be kept fully informed whether they like it or not.I personally don't want to be uninformed because others don't care.

I disagree re sub levels they are part of the picture which should be included at parents evening.If any of my dc have sat at the same level for months I want to know why. There may be a valid reason but I want to be informed and also to know why.

Teachers are paid a jolly good wage and informing parents is an important part of the job. Keeping parents in the dark has no educational benefit what so ever.

YY again.

And no not all school will actually tell you which levels your children are at (My dcs have been in 2 different schools, first one refused to give me detailed level, second you have to strongly ask what they are and then you never quite get an answer when you want to go into more details).

And no the school doesn't always give books back at the end of the year. Again, first school didn't give anything at all. Second, give them back the year after. So you have the Y2 books back at the end of Y4.

And no, it's not that easy to go and see a teacher when said teacher answers by 'don't you trust the school/me to ask so many questions?'

Re homework we got told it's set to consolidate work so tells you nothing really.We don't get books home either and it is very intimidating knowing you're looked down on if you ask for more info which puts many off(not me).

This means some parents will be better informed than others which is completely unfair.Ie the kids of more confident,more educational knowledgeable parents will have an advantage.All parents should get the same info ie levels,progress and targets so if there is stagnation or unsatisfactory progress you can help your child to do something about it.Also if parents want to help their kids achieve even more if making satisfactory/good progress surely this is a good thing.

Surely the more involvement and support schools and kids get from parents the better.

Im bit fearful about september as coming across pushy.

I dident realise about na sub levels and what level mine was on until end of year 1 report.

wasent discussed at either parents evening.

parents evening mostly said well behaved , niec to others very generic lovley things which suppose suppost to come away all warm and fuzzy thinking everythings just fab once again shes in the middle shes average.

It was mentioned shw wa getting extra help reading
wa mentioned maths was weak point-but no action plan to resolve this other than doing the set homework.

it wasent until saw the worksheets that thourght actually shes quite bad at maths.

The kids are not aware what na sublevels they on.
but they are very aware on reading levels.
daughter says theirs a pictorial chart of how they doing on literacy and numercay so moving up a board.

im trying not to compare mine to others,

the sub levlel expected at the end of each year is a national avarage.
listening to other parents its not the average at that specific school as many achived higher-dident ask by way some parents brag.

Only other day spoke to 1lady whos son went to quite a academic state junior she said if he was in any other school he be top but as the schools so acadamemic

shes got him extra help to keep up with peers in his class not meet the national average whih is a average of many areas.

I still remember school being behind.
desperatly trying to catch up.
then being in bottom sets and trying to claw my way up
I doid with english but dident with science,maths or geography those clases were chaos those who wanted to get on were picked on, couldent concentrate, teachers were dealing with behaviour not academic progression.

I think i was daft to think primary be not so academic.
we only just finished year 1 and they fixated with levels and year 2 sats.

I just want to prepare my child to have chance of acheiviving good grade.

not coach her into a mini einstein.

been looking at work booklets online its a minefeild.

even matalan and pounshops have workbooklets just unsure which ones best.

we did a few with stepson-think i got them from the works .

think will get some for science, maths and english as they the core.

I guess most parents assume the school will teach them all they need to know and as long as they pick the right school the child will be ok.

Mam don't be scared-go in and ask.Do not be fobbed off.Ask for targets and ideas on how to work towards them at home.

Be wary of shop work books.

CGP are good,they have books for each year group.

Being an informed pro active parent alone will give your dc massive advantages.

Do not be scared of annoying your school. It's not a popularity competition,it's a service paid for by your taxes,get the most from it. This primary section on MN is great for asking questions-ask away,get as much advice and info as you can.

Thanks prairie flower

whats cgp?

I want to buy a few books that would help.

but they all fairly pricey so want to make sure pick right ones.

I think if anyone suggests extra work at home they considered pushy/hothousing the child.

its like a journey.

I want to get from

b to ac

i need a map how to get there.

or I could get horribly lost.

im not a teacher I dont know these things.

im not expecting the school to do everything
i want to be involved too as can see it helps.

im not a huge fan on nc and its targets.
but its sytem we have
and we have to work to that in state sector.

I got very confused end last term as

dident realise she was behind to that extent to the end,
tas telling me one thing, school websites telling me shes below.

the reports came out with any explanation of levels.
some parents enquired and complained
it was then put on website 2days before school broke up.

mam your dd is not 'behind to that extent'. 1b, not 1a, is seen as the expected level for child at the end of Y1 in many schools.
As a rule of thumb, 3 sub-levels progress is 'expected' in Y2.

and technically sub levels don't even exist

thank you flexibex I know its not massivly behind but shes scored 1 b on everything.so she has to go up 3sublevels in all just to be at expected avarage.if the sublevels dont exists im baffled as we are told as parents they do.

Don't confuse expected and average they aren't the same ... The Government expect most children to achieve a level 2 (2b) by the end of KS1 but actual average achievement varies year by year

If you look at the NC you will see there are 8 levels (no sub levels) . The NC documents themselves make it clear that Levelling is to be done ONCE per Key Stage (at the end of it), looking at a pupil's work/knowledge/skills against the descriptors. Schools award sub levels based on a child achieving a third of the criteria for a level simply because parents want to know "roughly" what their child can do.

1b at end of year 1 is considered on target in my school.

3 sublevels progress is normal in KS1 - it's only in KS2 that 1-2 sublevels is expected.

KS1 is 2 years - and they're expected to make 2 levels - ie 3 sub levels per year.

KS2 is 4 years - and they're still expected to make 2 levels - ie 1.5 sublevels per year.

KS3 is 3 years.....

I am getting annoyed by all this talk about the difference between average and expected level etc...

For me the average level is the one I am expecting the average child (across the country, years or whatever) to achieve. It's the one that they have to achieve as a minimum to carry on and do reasonably well.

I do get that some children mature at different rate blablabla but as I, and the teacher, don't now whether it is just a maturity issue or a real issue with understanding that requires support, I'd rather give support than say one or two year down the line, 'Oops there is a problem there'.
Sub levels tell you that. They tell you if a child has stopped progressing. Whether they 'exist' or not is irrelevant tbh as most teachers use them and that's what parents are told about.
We could be using any other system to monitor progress, including the dreaded marks etc... that's the same.

However, when a parent is worried about going to see the teacher 'because she will be seen as pushy' and that this is reinforced my comments from teachers on 'annoying parents' (see above) or comments about the fact she has nothing to worry about, I don't think it help tbh.

mam go and see your dd's teacher and ask your explanations. Don't leave until you have understood what is expected, what is OK or not, how other children are doing etc...
Ask where the issues are and ask what you can do about it (exercises but not just that, some things in maths can be done whilst putting the table for example, you have 2 forks, how many more do you need now? etc...). And then go and back tell the teacher what you have seen, any issue you have notice etc...
My experience is that teachers don't have time to know in every single details where each child is struggling. Sometimes parental input is helpful (and appreciated)

simply because parents want to know "roughly" what their child can do

Only the parents mrz not the teachers?
You mean that teachers do not follow at which level their students are at or that they follow a different system?

Teachers use a much, much more precise method of knowing where the kids are than meaningless sublevels.

So why children are allowed to bring reading books home?

Because in the grand scheme of things, if your child loses a reading book, it's not that big a deal -we can just buy another one!

If your child loses their exercise book, we've then lost all the evidence for that child! What on earth would I then show Ofsted if they came in? Or, more importantly for me, what would I use as evidence for my assessment?

Trust me, kids manage to lose their exercise books even when they've never left the classroom (had a heartstopping 2 weeks this term when x1 RE book and x1 maths book went 'missing')

If you want to see their books - just ask! I'm at school every night until 6pm. No skin off my nose if you wanted to pop in for an update :)

Ask the teacher what books you should buy - again, no mystery! Just ask! You want some old tests? Ask! Don't see what the big deal is.

Agree with mrz - amazing how many homework sheets get lost and don't make it back every week. Unfortunately, not all parents are as interested/involved as you. I adore my interested parents! Makes it so much easier to stretch the kids and develop their knowledge further.

But sitting there complaining that you don't get what you want isn't going to help is it lol. Get yourself into school and ask! :)

ladyindisguise 'mam go and see your dd's teacher and ask your explanations. Don't leave until you have understood what is expected, what is OK or not, how other children are doing etc...'

I don't think teachers will be telling you how other children are doing! Why on earth would you need to know that?

For me the average level is the one I am expecting the average child (across the country, years or whatever) to achieve.

then there isn't one because it varies year to year

Flexy personally I would want to know if my child was trailing behind his peers regardless of national expectations. Many parents want to know how their dc fit in with a class and/or national expectations. Why on earth would you not want to know,does it have to be a state secret?

I only know how 2others in year are doing.

not because I activly asked.

but because they mentioned it ones a close reinds o night of report she rang me and said her child nearly 6months younger different class got 1as and 2cs what did that mean?

Another parent dident diclose what but said every area was different level.

my dd is 1b writing, 1b reading.1b science and 1b numeracy.

i was baffled as would have said readings stronger than numbers
i could visibly see her reading improving and number stuff was becoming harder.

i feel as if the grading is giving the answer to the equation but not giving emthe workings out.

How did they reach that conclusion?
whats the weakest aspect of her numbers
what can i do to help over the summer?

it wasent drilled down or given to me in detail that i needed even when i spoke to ta and teacher on last day they said 1bs fine dont worry.

1b may well be average for some schools.
but our school website clearly says 1a.

i suspect as mentioned before different schools will have different averages and expect different results if that makes sense.

all i do know is quite a few kids on higher reading levels so guessing their nc average for reading be higher than mine.
Again only know this from what other parents have said and what daughter says.

The split in classes this years not based on age this year is nc levlel so high performing ones have gone into other class.
I dont know their exact scores neither do i need or want to know.

what i worry about is my dd.
is she near bottom of class for everything.
how many in class doing better not their exact scores just overall picture of where she stands in her year group.

i want her to try her best and fulfill her potential.

I wish she had got diffrering scores for each as then could focus one specific thing rather than all 4.

I do believe the average for her class and that year is 1a and shes slightly below.

I hold my hands up and say I was wrong last year.

I was a passenger trusting that the homework and the school would deliver.I dident think at age 6would need to do extra as like i say she has no special needs.

i think its like shes a pool and shes not confident and slightly out of her depth at times.

I dident realise reception -to year one would be such a leap for her.

her report

literacy making good steady progress, become more independent in writing, knowledge of phonics and reading has improved. she has worked hard and enjoys storys-work needed she needs to ensure sentences make sense and join up her handwriting.

numeracy finds many areas of maths challenging, she tries hard and has made some good progress.she is able to read, write and order numbers up to 20 and complete simple calculations with support!

sceince-this year shes studied these topics
and shows an developing understanding of the topics covered-I read this as she doesnt understand fully the topics covered.

The other topics re, ict, humanities mainly just says she enjoys, contributes to discussions.

The pe made me laugh shes developing a good level of skill in these areas especially gymnastics she moves with fluency and control and can create her own sequenced routines.

Yes that would be the nearly 4years of gymnastics classes shes been doing since she was 3 and 2years of cheer leading.

I would say she is quite sporty yet wasent picked for the primary school olympics yet again parents were baffled by criteria for the ones picked..

overall shes freindly, empathetic and thourghtful
she found some aspects of the curriculum challenging for 1st part of the year but has worked hard to develop skills in all areas especially reading-she had the 8weeks extra help in smaller group with ta.
socially she enjoys school, is smiley and been pleasure to teach and wish her every success in future.

so amongst the fluff i read shes trying but not doing as well as she could.

The other children within her literacy support group are now higher reading levels.

i recently read school rules by frances gilbert-there was a section on decoding school reports asking the right questions.

Another mum whos secondry teacher told me in parents evening never mention how other kids are doing as it gets teachers backs up word questions right and non competative

But if dont have benchmark to work towards

then will get shes fine
shes average

both the book and some of stuff she said made its sound like teachers talk in different language.

I know a few of the pushy mums in the playground and dont want to be seen as difficult parent .

Today I been attempting to help dd write a short simple story.
this will help with reading, writing and spelling.
to say its been challenging understatement.

her writing can get very messy
her sentences-messy
punctuation non existant
spelling shocking this is girl who mostly gets 9/10 in set spelling homework.

she seems to struggle with silent letters words.
she can read the books she brings home fine but reading other stuff i point out she struggles.

next year its new teacher and new ta who know her and another class of 30.

So....

Let's imagine you have a child who struggles. Let's say that she is working towards level 1 in writing at the beginning of Y2 and her target is to achieve a 1a at the end of the year.

You have a meeting with the teacher to discuss intervention (quite rightly), and during this conversation, you ask the teacher what levels the other children are achieving. The teacher tells you (with pride) that it is a high achieving class, with 5 children well are on the way to 3b in writing by the end of the year, with the other 23 expected to get 2b and above. You realise that your daughter is the only child in the class with a target under the expected level for her age.

How does that make you feel? How would the information help you or your daughter?

With appropriate interventions your daughter would make the expected progress for her during the year but with the best will in the world (and for whatever reason) she could not achieve a L2a or a L3.

What would you do? Blame the school? Get a tutor? Move her to another school? Do tell.

I have a theory that it's only the parents of high achievers that want to know their child's position in class.

www.burfordschool.co.uk/curriculum/assessment/Writing%20Examples%20-%20L1.pdf

These are examples of 1a writing from the DfE

www.leics.gov.uk/writing_exemplar_-whole_document.pdf

I think you're surmising a lot Flexy,who knows what said child could achieve.You can't write any child off at 6.Kids can mature at different rates and with support from school/home make huge leaps.

The fact is if all the kids have the same teacher and my dc wasn't achieving as well as the majority I'd want to know,what benefit would there be in not knowing?I'd certainly want to know how my child fitted in with national expectations at the very least.

You could be told your child is working above age expectations,think you had a genius but be blissfully unaware said child wasn't working at a level as high as the majority.

Giving as much info as possible can only be beneficial I don't see any benefit in with holding information.

Comparing one pupil to the other 29 in my class serves no useful purpose to me as a teacher. What I need to know is what the child can do at any point during the year and what they need to learn in order to move onto the next stage of learning so that I can ensure they continue to progress.