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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

Did anyone get a Level 4 in Y2 SATS ?

52 replies

RosemaryandThyme · 13/07/2012 22:06

Just wondering if a Level 4 could / has been awarded to anyone's child in y2 and if so if the school has asked for their child to be moved forward a class ?

Would it be necessary to move a child forward or should next years Y3 teacher be asked to differentiate ?

TIA

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numbum · 13/07/2012 22:10

DS had a 3a in maths. Why would the school want to move him on a year? It would cause problems further on in the school and he's very happy with his peers.

Yes they should be able to differentiate

Pyrrah · 13/07/2012 22:14

Just want to comment on the moving forward thing...

From a personal point of view - having been a year ahead at school and an August birthday and having a sister who was 2 years ahead at school - I absolutely would never want my daughter to be ahead of her peer group.

Even if a child is more than capable at functioning ahead of their peers academically, they really pay for it in terms of not being as emotionally or physically mature as their classmates and this really can have a big impact later on.

The best situation would be for the child to remain in their year group, study the same material in subjects where they are normally able and be set separate work to stretch them in subjects where they are particularly able.

In the same way that extra help is available for the child who struggles to read etc, there really should be extra help for the child who is far in advance of the rest of the class.

Original poster

RosemaryandThyme · 13/07/2012 22:31

Thank you - this echos my thoughts, teacher has got a bit excitable I think in advocating advancing a year. Whilst i'm pleased for Ds that he's doing well he is still just a regular 7 year old boy emotionally.
I didn't want to say to the teacher could he not stay in his class and be stretched as I wasn't sure if this was normal practice, will go back to her I think, thanks again.

OP posts:

CouthyMow · 13/07/2012 22:32

It doesn't matter if a DC is WORKING on level 4 in Y2, the SATS will only report a level 3. Because the papers don't actually have questions on L4 work. I have a DS, my DS1, who was consistantly working on level 4 in Maths in Y2, and he was given Level 3 in his SATS hence me questioning it.

They can't give a mark that isn't available on the test IYSWIM.

It's a bit like GCSE's - if you sit a Foundation paper, the highest grade you can achieve is a 'C'. If you get 100% in the test - you will STILL only get a 'C' grade.

Y2 SATS are like this - even if your DC gets 100%, they can only achieve a L3.

DS1 is now just finishing Y5, and is working at L6 in Maths.

I wouldn't have wanted him moved up a year, God no! He is very ahead academically. But if he had been moved up a year, he would be going into Secondary school in September...he is 10yo! Just because he is advanced academically, it doesn't mean he is advanced socially. IMO, good differentiation IN school, and extra work at home too, is a much better option for 99% of advanced DC than being moved up a year.

The school teach him, two other boys, and a girl from his year in a group of 4, working on L6 maths, in the library. They differentiate the work perfectly well for the more able DC's.

Just wish the school were as good at doing that with the DC's that were behind, but that's a story for another thread...

Original poster

RosemaryandThyme · 13/07/2012 22:38

He was given OCR endof year 3 and end of year 4 papers to sit and not the Yeasr 2 SATs paper as presumably they knew he'd covered it all.

In this way they have been able to give him an accurate grade rather than 3+

OP posts:

CURIOUSMIND · 13/07/2012 22:43

My DC1 was given 4+ on a subject at the end of y2.

numbum · 13/07/2012 22:49

couthymow you're wrong! If it's a good school they will test the child as far as they can

DS wasn't given the KS1 maths SAT papers because they knew there was no point. He, with 2 others, sat the OCR papers for end of year 4

Original poster

RosemaryandThyme · 13/07/2012 22:50

Curious can I ask if they asked your permission to mave your child forward a year ? I'm hoping school will agree to stretch him within his year group but am feeling a bit intimidated in getting my view across.

OP posts:

CouthyMow · 13/07/2012 22:53

They did moot it at the end of Y2, but I turned it down on the basis of emotional maturity, I might have thought a bit harder had he been an Autumn baby, but he is an early summer born, and I just felt it was too young.

It has been the right move to keep him in with his peers, but this school IS very good at stretching the brightest DC's at the expense of the ones who are behind.

And I have just thought - when DS1 was in Y2, you couldn't get higher than L3 in the SATS - but I have a feeling they may have changed since then. . He's just finishing Y5 now...

lisad123 · 13/07/2012 22:54

Dd1 is very bright and always been a few years ahead of her peers however, we have never considered moving her. That's a huge pressure on a child and some do run ahead and then slow down.
They are better with peers their age IMO, because school isn't just about SATs results but they learn so many more skills working along with kids their age, like how to be kids.

CouthyMow · 13/07/2012 22:55

Plus, our school have never done the 'optional' SATS for other year groups until this year - so they were only doing the Y2 ones and the Y6 ones...

basildonbond · 13/07/2012 23:00

ds2 is very able in maths and was assessed as being Level 4 at the end of Y2 - he has a statement for ASD so they report his levels every year at his annual review.

he was supposed to have differentiated work but it never really materialised. At the end of Year 4 he was a 5a, which is where he stayed until the end of Y6. Roll on Y7 and his latest level is 7b, which on the face of it is miraculous progress but actually shows that his primary just had him down as a 'banker' for Level 5 so there was no point in devoting any resources to him ...

I would certainly not advocate moving an able child to the year above and many LEAs won't allow children to transfer to secondary out of their year group, meaning your dc would have to spend two years in Y6. I was moved up a year at primary and it was not a happy experience. However, some primaries are much better than others at dealing with children at both ends of the ability spectrum - ds' primary was pretty rubbish at that so he spent most of ks2 being bored out of his mind ...

CURIOUSMIND · 13/07/2012 23:04

They didn't move him up a year.He had his own lesson all the time.They didn't ask my permission for individual lesson.I would say yes please if they asked.
I never heard anybody was moved up a year completely officially.(There were threads digging about this before, but answers were all no, not possible.)For certain subject, I believe some schools do this.

CURIOUSMIND · 13/07/2012 23:06

They asked to let my Ds2 join Y2 when he just started reception! I said Nop!

Sittinginthesun · 13/07/2012 23:09

High Rosemary. You kindly answered a question for me a couple days ago, which I've sorted now.

In our school, they set the maths on ability, so DS1 has been in the top set of year 4 this year, even though he's year 3. Don't know his level at end of year 2, but was recorded as "3". I've just checked, and this year he's a level 4a.

He's with a couple of others of similar ability in his year. Everything else, they extend within the class. He's a level 4b/c fir writing, but in his normal year 3 class, and it works well.

Feenie · 13/07/2012 23:14

Teachers have always been able to assess at a level 4. It's a teacher assessment - very little to do with tests, which give only the narrowest of snapshots.

CouthyMow · 13/07/2012 23:18

Feenie - the TEACHER assessed him as being on L4 in Y2, but the SATS results just said 'L3', not even a sub-level...

Feenie · 13/07/2012 23:25

What year? Was it pre-2005?

CouthyMow · 13/07/2012 23:40

No, was 2009. And I truly agree with the teacher assessment of L4 for Maths at the end of Y2, he is teacher assessed as L6 at the end of Y5 this year. And he has sat L5 SATS papers at school and got 100% in the maths one (!).

Can't understand why it was only reported as L3 for the SATS results, but the answer I got when I queried it was the one I gave above.

Feenie · 13/07/2012 23:44

Then I can assure you that she could have teacher assessed him at a 4. It even gives you 4 as an option on the data collector we have to use to submit data.

AnxiousElephant · 13/07/2012 23:49

Just watching this with interest. DD1 has just been reported as 3c for reading in Y1 so I am wondering about assessments in SATS next year. If she progresses at the same rate next year then she will probably achieve that.

Feenie · 13/07/2012 23:52

ARA - legal document:

The following teacher assessment codes should be used:
Description Teacher assessment code
For assessing reading, writing and mathematics. If the
school believes the child is working above level 4, the
school should submit level 4.
1, 2C, 2B, 2A, 3, 4

CouthyMow · 14/07/2012 01:07

Yes, Feenie, he WAS teacher assessed as L4, but his SATS results were reported as L3.

AbigailS · 14/07/2012 07:35

At Year 2 it is only really teacher assessment that matters. The SATs (tests) are one minor strand that informs the judgements teacher make to get to the level. Teachers order the test papers based on levels in September You can only order one level paper per child as children should only sit one test. Some of mine did the level 2 in February and sailed through with a good score. As the year progressed they continued to make rapid progress and I used my teacher assessment to give the final 3B and 3A level. We don?t report tests and teacher assessment levels separately (especially as tests were February score and reported contain May levels). If I had reported both there would be a huge difference and it would look like my assessments were over-inflated, but I have sufficient non-test evidence for my final scores.

What I?m trying to say is on tests, you test once, with papers order when you?ve only just met the child. You can?t do extra tests if they?ve under or over achieved on that test. And for the level 3 tests you can only mark to a numerical level (i.e. 3 or not achieved), no sublevels. HTH

cubscout · 14/07/2012 08:20

Interesting. Do the scores reported to parents match those collected for stats? My ds was reported Level 4 at the end of Y2, L5a at end of Year 3 and Level 6 at end of Year 4 in the reports sent home, so in theory a school apparantly can report higher levels. He has had 1:1 2ce a week since Y2.

If your ds is a Level 4 then I think you need to have a good chat with the Year 3 teacher and if necessary the SENCO to see what they can put in place for next year (and the next and the next....). They should be able to differentiate and if they do not have the skills within the school to do that in later years, they need to get advice from secondary teachers. Problem is, many primary teachers are not that confident teaching higher level maths. In the beginning of the year 1:1 with his Y4 teacher, ds told her he wanted to learn trigonometry.....

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