To Kumon or not to Kumon. That is the question.

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DD is starting school in September. Below are the Pros and Cons I have been debating recently.

1. She is bright, so should be okay without extra help in school
2. It is too early to put her through this
3. Kumon is expensive and time consuming.

The Pros

1. It may give her that bit of extra confidence at school
2. Earlier is better as then she can grow with that system
3. Its not so expensive as to be prohibitive.

I really cant decide either way. Please someone help?

Teacherwith2kids - is it really the case that most 7/8 year olds will be completely secure with times tables? I've found that the vast majority won't have automatic recall. Even those who 'know' them can't generally answer a quick fire round of questions instantly. May just be those I know are behind most others?

Yes Hamishbear it is the case that most 7/8 year olds will be secure with times tables (with automatic recall) I give my 6-7 year olds 50 to answer in 2 mins (written answers) by this stage of the year

Iya,

I help my children every single day. I just choose free, felxible and enjoyable ways of doing it, that's all.

Just to add I can see that all the maths games, general maths talk (to develop concepts) is probably the better idea but I personally found this very hard. I don't enjoy maths and found that I don't 'talk maths' as often as I should. I find that I do emphasise those things I really love & my DC do best in these areas. Probably horribly selfish but it also springs from the fact I am not that secure or confident about maths myself. In this sort of situation at least Kumon gives children some maths exposure outside school? Even if only giving a child some basic maths tools it has to be better than nothing?

I suspect there must be others out there who do 'talk maths' but don't do it with any exuberance, flair and natural love for maths radiating from every pore. It's far more effective if done this way IME.

Oh Mrz I am preparing my child for school, I am preparing him to learn to sit STILL for 10mins , because he is going to be spending at least 360mins in school and sooner or later the learning through play phase will end and he will have to sit down quietly for longer.

Sorry I could'nt resist.

With Kumon?

Could you not teach the same skill (sit for 10 minutes) with a more fun activity - lego, baking, colouring, cutting and sticking, reading a story together, playing a board game - or even an interactive computer maths game?

Why death by worksheet?

Hula it may go against the grain for most of us but I do have many local friends in Singapore who encouraged formal learning very early. It isn't unusual to start with a 'your baby can read' type programme and move on to phonics enrichment at about 3-4 years old. Kumon or Singapore maths also start very early. There is a usually huge amount of exposure and practice before a child goes to school at 6.

Without exception those local children I know are academically advanced for their age. Many are seen as super intelligent. There is a gifted programme in primary schools here, some try to expose their children to it in advance to ensure their child's admission. Many parents also do lots of creative play etc with their children (which tends not to be realised by many).

A friend of DD spent her first 2 or 3 years in India and it was also very common for formal learning to begin from 2y there. The parents actually didn't go in for it so much so she hadn't been forced through the early learning stuff like some are.

Just seems so sad though :(

it's interesting that these children are seen as super intelligent because they wouldn't necessarily be regarded as such here where greater emphasis is placed on independent thinking and being able to complete pages of maths would be regarded as a low level skill

Perhaps, but we can't help but see things through our own cultural lens.

I think we can be too laid back in the UK and under estimate the value add of extra enrichment - not necessarily Kumon. A child who has been exposed to work sheets or familiar with the concept of doing sums to time will likely fare better when having to work independently for the first time in Y1 etc - when they are presented with a list of sums or simple word problems it won't be for the first time. They might well then have a head start on their peers which may lead to confidence, success breeds success etc.

Mrz - Singapore Maths isn't just about learning by rote. Kumon is just one string to their bow, one arrow in their quiver.

Yes with kumon Mrz et Hula and he is alive and well and right now he is playing racing cars with his brother. 15 mins ago he was.... wait for it .... writing on worksheets. such torture, poor kid. where is social services!!!!

No I'm looking at it though IQ testing perspective.
Children who have been exposed to worksheets at a young age struggle to work independently without the crutch of a worksheet because they don't know where to begin. They are often the anxious ones in the class continually checking that they are doing it right afraid of anything different.

Would agree that could be the drawback. My local friends have signed up for Elan for example. Elan is apparently about creativity, problem solving and innovation not just worksheets and getting quick at arithmetic. There's a whole raft of programmes out here, some are very interesting and many are about creating future leaders and a whole lot of fun actually.

mrz, I do not see why you despise Kumon so much. Being a teacher I expect you to be more open with other concepts. Debating should be your forte. I can understand people who may have tried it and it may not work for them but to react the way you are reacting is surprising me.

Iyatoda, I understand why you did it. I understand I have to do something similar to get my DD aligned to academic work. I understand that she needs a direction for focus like you did with your son. I am trying to catch it early like you have. If Kumon is a means of achieving it, I do not see any harm. As you said, whatever fits for you. I want to increase my daughters concentration span bit by bit and make her more independent in terms sitting on her own and studying. Kumon may help. If it does not after 6 months, I will let it go.

Kumon is not about IQ. No one has sold me that. Kumon is about gaining independence. learning some basic math by rote to speed up the process of learning maths. it hopefully takes away the boredom in the long run of doing quadratic equations. that is my understanding. the worksheet and the concept of a little each day also appeals. if it does not achieve whgat i feel i want to try it for, i will stop. where is the harm?

I was looking for a balanced view. not an almost personal attack on someone who is sharing their experience.

I am not entirely sure why you asked, if you are simply planning to do it anyway.

Hamishbear Sun 17-Jun-12 17:33:10

Mrz - Singapore Maths isn't just about learning by rote.

Sorry Hamishbear I missed this post .. would it interest you to know I use Singapore maths in my classroom ?

It was recommended by a poster on MN and I bought the books (out of my own money) because I'm not open to new concepts.

and I still think Kumon is inappropriate for a three year old

No she wasn't planning on doing it, she was considering it, she wanted advise not a shout down.

She is now going to go for Kumon, not for eternity but to see if it will acheive what she wants, if it doesn't no harm done (to me, but to all others is death by worksheet).

There are kids in state schools learning with methods that Mrz thinks so highly off that are not doing well and are using so many support tools out off school to acheive. In my experience the age of the child is not the issue here its the method she is using that people are so against.

skipping in the fields and counting sheep, counting eggs whist baking will get more favourable response.

To me, it's not just about whether kumon works though. So what if it makes a child fast at mental arithmetic (which is not the same as maths anyway) - its whole ethos just does not fit with EYFS or my own views on parenting.

Yes the kids we get in school who have done Kumon require extensive support to get them to expected maths levels iyatoda

(sorry that was in response to the start of OP's post above mine)

no, i am still looking at other ideas.Komon ticks some boxes but maybe there is something that fits better? I want to make an informed decision. I also did not see after reading all the posts what harm it could do. I am still sitting on the fence.

mrz, I just wanted to find out more. i really do appreciate ALL your views. but if a mother has already taken a step for her child, the worst we can do is make her feel awful for it.

Thank you all. I have appreciated your input.