To Kumon or not to Kumon. That is the question.

[megabored]

DD is starting school in September. Below are the Pros and Cons I have been debating recently.

1. She is bright, so should be okay without extra help in school
2. It is too early to put her through this
3. Kumon is expensive and time consuming.

The Pros

1. It may give her that bit of extra confidence at school
2. Earlier is better as then she can grow with that system
3. Its not so expensive as to be prohibitive.

I really cant decide either way. Please someone help?

Why Feenie should I listen to peoples on Mnet when I have tried kumon and it worked for what I wanted it to acheive? why? I am not the OP, the OP wanted opnions and I gave mine.

Kumon is not for everyone I completely get that but it would not be in business today if people did not benefit somehow from its methods.

Now I AM truly out of this conversation.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to take poisonous swipes at people whose opinions differ from your own.

Music is very like maths. I got distinction in every exam that I took in theory of music. I could find an augmented 5th, diminished 7th, transpose to a different key- but I hadn't (and still haven't) a clue what any of it meant or what it sounded like!! The certificates look impressive -even though meaningless!

I was interested in Quip's post.I know very little about it, but I haven't been impressed with the DCs who have gone. They are very rigid in their thinking and you constantly get 'I don't do it like that at Kumon'. I think it is rather like me and my music -a work sheet and a formula that works.

Please please let children be children and learn through play and leave the teaching to proper teachers when they start school.

By "proper teachers," do you mean "demi-gods?"

The last thing that a DC starting school needs at the end of the school day are boring worksheets. If you want to help her teach her chess, play cards, board games -do cooking etc and make it fun.

Mrz - great news re: using Singapore maths in your classroom.

I am surprised you've seen so many struggle with maths who do Kumon. If you look at the international schools here you'll find that the very top sets are IME almost entirely populated with Kumon (and tutored) children (schools are vast so we have around 8 or 9 maths sets a year). All of these understand mathematical concepts and Kumon is just an arrow in their quiver. Many of these children are of Indian heritage where culturally much emphasis is placed on maths/academics (as you'll know).

My children learnt through play in the very early years and I have many friends who are very keen on Reggio Emilia (sp?) etc. I have found that mine are 'naturally' creative and that it's been hard to persuade them to sit to formal homework in slightly later years. They are used to free play.

We set for maths in our school, very young, and if mine had been doing Kumon or similar earlier and I'd placed more formal emphasis on learning they would be in higher sets. I am absolutely certain of it. I hadn't realised but all the other parents were sending their children to maths enrichment a couple of hours a week so they hit the ground running when they went to an NC international school that came to these things slightly earlier than we had. I can see both sides of the coin having lived in the UK and in three countries in Asia. Having said that IME the UK are positively full on compared to Australia. To generalise, dfferent countries different priorities. In our maths club you won't find many Australians but go to a swimming gala and you'll find Australian parents who are showing a steely, fierce competitiveness for their children and determination that would make the fiercest 'academic' tiger mother quake in her boots.

Not that you can generalise but those who assume Kumon children and those in Singapore etc who study in a different or multi faceted way are somehow always inferior and lack understanding are incorrect (IMHO). This idea that they are all robots who learn by rote is usually trotted out by people that haven't spent any time immersed in a different education system or have any idea. Perhaps once there was a grain of truth in it but we need to wake up, things are changing (again IMHO). I think sometimes we trot out this platitude just to make us feel better in the UK.

The anti kumon opinions expressed here reminds me of the threads to do with tiger moms and the education system in places in Hong Kong which is basically this - traditional British methods churn out kids that are creative and free thinking unlike those damned pesky foreigners with their learning by rote methods.

All these arguments would have more credibility with me if the UK's international rankings in maths weren't so poor.

Yes I know that places like Oxbridge churn out outstanding mathematicians but the reality for pupils in general is that many leave school totally incapable of calculating a 12.5% service charge for a food bill (London Evening Standard)

PooshTun, that's not a very nice thing to say. This is an internet forum the op asked a question, everyone is entitled to answer.

Until this thread I knew nothing about Kumon, now I think it must be like marmite.

I thought that I had strayed on to the wrong thread- PooshTun has taken it into such a peculiar direction. It is merely a system of worksheets designed by someone who has made a lot of money from them. I don't think there is any other system that you can do as cheaply. If I thought that my DCs needed extra Maths tuition I pay out for a Maths tutor for individual work to suit their needs.
I know many DCs who have gone on to do Maths at places like Cambridge and Warwick and not one has done Kumon- as I said earlier I find that it makes them rigid in their thinking and they don't seem to make connection.
Your post to seeker at 23.38 is highly unpleasant- not to mention totally wrong, PooshTun and I think that you ought to retract it.

I have reported the post.

Me too.

Actually, I hope that post stays- it doesn't bother me, and it shows PooshTun's true colours.

Thank you, though to those that reported it.

o... disappointed in that remark pooshtune, that is somehow quite low.

To Kumon or not to kumon? Do what you like, try it out OP and let us know.

sadly, a lot of kids really could do with a bit of extra work/homework.

I waited for years to intervene for my underperforming DS, I had lots of faith in the teachers and the state system. But I was wrong. That's all I know, wish I had gotten him help earlier on.

I will be working through a few work books this summer hol, planing to do 30 mins a day. We did this at Easter, and it is amazing how quickly the catch up with a bit of focus and dedication.

I WISH we could all leave it to the school, but that does not always work out, sadly...

Chandon the OPs child is THREE years old! it's too early to know if they will need extra work.

Chanson- the child is 3!

And nobody has said never do any extra work- they have said don't do Kumon. Completely different things,

My son would have failed the 11+. Not on intelligence, or Maths but his huge struggles with writing. He could end up at a top University, if he works (at present he wants to go to one of the top in the world but not Oxbridge). He has never done Kumon, I considered it but just didn't have time together with the extra help he needed for his dyslexia and his sister and his extra curricular activities. But we did do some worksheets in primary school, which I found free on the Internet. They were tedious though.
Neither of my oldest children shone at Maths at primary, because they just weren't that fast at tables etc. My daughter thought she was awful at Maths until this year, when she has discovered that she "get number". Maybe it is the way their primary teaches Maths but they are the kind of kids who aren't great at the rote learning, but do "get" higher level Maths. Eg. DS has spent ages working on bases other than 10, especially binary.

So Kumon is expensive, doesn't teach higher level skills, and is a bit boring unless you are highly motivated by certificates. For a 5 year old I would work much more on making sure they understand the language of Maths (higher, lower, more than, less than and so on), and then work on real life Maths, like adding up a supermarket bill or sharing out toys (smarties).

Chess is excellent-all County players appear to be good at Maths.
You can do masses with card games-very good for number bonds and mental maths. Board games are the same. I'm sure my younger brother was very quick on the uptake because he was playing Monopoly at 5 yrs and we were out to cheat him if possible! Great games here and all for free.
Kumon is something that you can consider later -if you still want to by then.

1. She is 4. But that's neither here nor there.

mrz you are still missing the whole point.
poosh & chandon etc have understood what I am looking for. It's not about kumon (per se) which is how this post started off. It's about how to supplement and support your child or even boost your child's potential. We seem to be going around in circles here with the kumon haters. chandons last post sums it up for me. Counting beans or doing arty farty things are clearly not enough if you want to stay competitive at an International level. The British education system is clearly failing to produce engineers and scientists. I want to be a proactive parent. Whether my DD wants to become an engineer or scientist is not the issue before I get a barrage of posts in that. I am trying to ensure I do everything I possibly can to ensure she has that choice. I want to start pushing her potential now than wait till I see the gaps. By then it will be too late like it was for me. If I am am making an uncreative child, I will pull back. But I doubt 10mins a day will do that. This debate\post has been so interesting for me. It seems it is okay for the kumon haters to judge the parents who make their kids cry to achieve something but not okay the other way around.

It seems it is okay for the kumon haters to judge the parents who make their kids cry to achieve something but not okay the other way around.

It's not okay to take swipes at people's kids, megabored, on either side of the debate.

Surprised you are condoning this.

You don't support a 4 yr old by sending them to Kumon Maths!

You probably put them off for life!

Unless they like doing repetitive work sheets-some do.