Private or state primary to get child into grammar secondary school

[Blossom8]

I know there is alot of controversy for parents tutoring, paying for their child to get into a selective grammar school but I don't want to start a debate on that, just advice.

I want my child to go to grammar school when she is 11. The only grammar school in our borough is very, very competitive and I want to give my child the best opportunity to gain a place. My dilemma is, do you think a private prep/primary would stand her a better chance of passing the 11+ as opposed to going to an average primary school with extra tuition?

I'm an average earner and will have to make a few sacrifices if we decide to go down the private prep route but I welcome your opinions especially those parents who were faced with this dilemma. Thanks

Firstly, how old is your child and do you think that they show the natural aptitudes and abilities to throve in a grammar school? Are you certain that it is the best place for them?

Secondly, I think you are best asking parents of kids at the grammar school, if you know any about that specific schools intake.

IMO though, I would send them to a state primary if there is a good one in the area, one that will focus on the whole child not just teach to test.

Do you think you might feel a bit ashamed if your child gets a grammar place by paying for private primary, and edges out a child who's come through the state system?

Private preps do a great deal towards the 11+ in our area and publish their 11+ success on their websites.
So I think it probably depends where you are.

Trifling - What is there to feel ashamed about? Surely we all want what is best for our own children and whether sending them to private primary or employing tutors is the best way to do that is down to each parent?

trifling - its a catch-22 because a parent could also feel ashamed if they didn't do as much as they possibly could to help their own child fulfil its potential.

Blossom - it depends on the individual schools, and on your child. My DD got a residual non-catchment place at her GS, so pretty competitive. As far as I can see these places have gone to a mix of private and state-educated children. DD was at a private school but its focus was rather more on private school entrance exams than 11+; DH had her doing some practice papers during the summer hols before but not really too intense.

trifling - as I said I don't want a debate about private v state. I just want to help my child fulfill her potential academically as she is a bright child but also develop her to be a happy and well rounded child. I will be sacrificing a nice house, holidays, cars etc to fund my child's private primary if I decided to go down that route. I just wanted opinions from other parents who were in my dilemma and the decision they made.

We chose a state primary, and had 2 DCs go through the selective school process successfully.
However even though I don't have any experience of private prep, I would say they may prepare DCs better for 11plus, state primary does not IMHO that's why a lot of parents go down the tutor route.

Could you name the borough? Might help the advice flow.
I'm London boro Bexley where grammar take approx 20% of children.
Next door in Bromley it's more like 5%.

Bexley well worth private prep. Bromley less so as they really have to be super super bright!

Shattereddreams - grammar school is in the London Borough of Redbridge but we live in the London Borough of Waltham Forest.

Thanks everyone for advice so far. I'm still undecided as to whether private prep, private secondary or grammar is the best option. Like most parents, I just want the best for my child who will be 3 years end of this month. Unfortunately the secondary schools in my borough is not great which is why I'm planning ahead.

Mine is going to Grammar from his state primary having passed the 11+. No tutoring as such, just did bond practice tests at home. Depends very much on the individual child

X -posted. Did I read that right, she's only 3 years old???? If that is the case then maybe wait until she starts school.

If you mean yr3 then you've still got a bit of time to think about it

Yes but the ops point is she needs to decide which primary to choose isn't it, so not much time really?

DD1 goes to a superselective and did go to a private primary BUT it was absolutely no help in the process - if she had been tested on maths for example she would never had got in because she was 2 -3 years behind! She got in because she is very clever.

A lot of the private girls schools in London put girls forward at age 10/11 for St Pauls', Goldophin etc which are increasingly competitive, but I have known several girls in recent years even at the so called feeder schools who are also tutored outside school. There might be a slight advantage in going private (at a well reputed prep) for maths/English but not much!

I think a good state school, practice papers at home or even a tutor would be a better option.

What school or borough is it for?

BeingFluffy, Woodford County High School.
ZZzzz - I never thought about calling them directly to ask about whether they take their pupils from mainly private or state educated kids - are they allowed to dilvuge such information?

Just panicking abit as my child has her assessment to the prep in Oct. I must admit the fees every month is a challenge so am 50/50 between state or private.

Tbh, at this age choose a school where she's going to be happy, enjoy going and learning and where they can meet her needs. You might want her to go to grammar but if she has the aptitude and ability ( and it'll be virtually impossible to tell at her age) then you can work with her once she's past the infants

blossom - I'm not sure but I think the Good Schools guide has info on where pupils have come from - but you need to subscribe to access, no idea how much it costs or whether what you get is worth the money. But if the info is there then presumably its public domain and not secret.

FWIW, I think it depends on the particular schools involved.

Where I live, there are residual superselective gramar schools.

There are also 2 big private schools where the transition from prep to senior is at 13+.

There are private primaries - which all stop at 11 - whose raison d'etre is to get children into the grammar schools. Only children who fail to get into the grammars will go on to private secondary.

Parents who are 'grammar at all costs' send their children to these schools, for the 7+ years of coaching for the grammar school tests they provide. My understanding - though I have no hard data to back this up - is that up to 50% of the grammar intake comes from such schools.

The norm for children who are at state schools but get into the grammar is 1-2 years of weekly coaching.

On the other hand, sending a child to the prep schools attached to or feeding into the big private schools at 13+ do no preparation at all for the grammar tests and so sending a child there for grammar preparation would be a complete waste.

If you're not sure about covering fees that's a concern.

Have you looked at fees, uniform, trips, sports equipment etc or just the fees? The fees are likely to go up during the next 8 years and a lot of salaries won't.

If finances are really going to be terribly tight then I'd start your dd at a good state primary and then review as she gets older. To start her in private education then swap to state wouldn't be such a good move to prepare her for the 11+ IMO

What if you pay for a private primary education and then your dd doesn't get into the grammar school? Would you be able to afford to keep paying for a private education or would you then be forced to go for a non-selective state secondary regardless? What are the state secondaries like? Are they OK, or is there a good reason for you being particularly keen on the grammar school? Would it maybe be better to save up for private secondary, which tends to be more expensive than private primary? Or are there only highly competitive, academic private schools in your area and you're worried your dd wouldn't get a place in a fee paying secondary school, either? (In my day, even in an area where the grammar schools were not super selective so you stood a 20% chance of getting into the state grammar, it was easier to get into the selective private schools - given that you were paying for the privilege and all that.... and some parents entered their children for the private school entrance exams from state primaries in addition to the 11 plus, just in case...).

Quite a few private schools do 11 plus entrance exams, btw - they don't all do only the 13+.