Private or state primary to get child into grammar secondary school

[Blossom8]

I know there is alot of controversy for parents tutoring, paying for their child to get into a selective grammar school but I don't want to start a debate on that, just advice.

I want my child to go to grammar school when she is 11. The only grammar school in our borough is very, very competitive and I want to give my child the best opportunity to gain a place. My dilemma is, do you think a private prep/primary would stand her a better chance of passing the 11+ as opposed to going to an average primary school with extra tuition?

I'm an average earner and will have to make a few sacrifices if we decide to go down the private prep route but I welcome your opinions especially those parents who were faced with this dilemma. Thanks

And Bucks, rabbit.

I think the op said she was in Waltham Forest not Kent? Looks like there are some lovely non-selective schools in that borough. Why don't you just go for a normal school instead, Blossom8?

Hi Blossom8
I am in a similar situation as you. We live in Bromley and I want my children to go to St Olaves or Newstead Woods (superselectives). Assuming things are still similar in 7/8 years time, they would also be able to apply to grammars in Kent and Bexley. At the moment, we are also in catchment for two good comprehensives (ex-grammars) as a back-up (but we might be out of catchment in 7/8 years time as these things are so uncertain).

The people we bought our house from had 3 children who all got into the superselectives (without external tutoring). Mum was stay at home and helped a lot and they did move earlier to be in catchment for one of the best state primaries. They were really involved with their childrens' education.
I have chosen a local prep school which has an amazing pass rate for grammars (it is basically geared at grammar) and is much cheaper than the other local prep schools. The after school clubs are much cheaper as well. I went for prep mainly because I want to keep working 3-4 days a week and I don't know how much time/energy I will have to tutor myself (but also because of the wrap-around care with the after school clubs).
I know some people locally who are keen on superselectives and they are renting temporarily (i.e. 1 year) in catchment close to the best state primaries (i.e. best Level 4 and Level 5 SATS and good/outstanding Ofsted). They will then supplement with home or external tutoring later on. In our area there are tutorial centres aimed at this kind of thing.
So for me the decision was made because I found a local prep school that was aimed at what I was looking for at a reasonable price (at least compared to other preps). Otherwise, I might have gone down the "move for catchment" option.
And when we get to 11+ and secondary transfers, I am still going to make sure I have a good comprehensive back-up even if that means moving miles away or moving for 1-2 years and renting my house out.

Woodford isn't your only option, many in Waltham forest apply for latymers and ilford as well. However you are competing with children from the whole of north/east London, and the chance of getting a place if your child is not exceptional is slim to none (I've seen many high ability children tutored and the vast majority don't make it).

You can't have this as your aim for your 3 year old unless you want to spend the next 7 years as ones of misery and stress for both of you. Again I've seen plenty of disappointed parents and children who feel like failures at 11.

The vast majority of local high ability children go to local schools and do well. If you have high ambitions and your dd has academic aptitude then she will be fine wherever she is.

Reading some of these posts have made me now abit hesitate about grammars. I just want the best for my child as she seems bright for approaching 3 years old - I want her to be challenged at school and fulfil her potential whether that be private or state. Private independent might be an option too as it seems less intense than grammars. Either that or we will have to think about moving to good state secondaries when that time comes.

There are some posters here that I feel portray me as a pushy mum or feel guilty for paying for education but surely you want the best for your child and know that you have helped them to be ambitious and independent. I imagine jobs will be tougher and more competitive in the future than they are now. My daughter has plenty of "fun" time with us and her friends. It is important for us to ensure she gets a balance of enjoying time as a child and supporting her with reading, counting etc.

And to be honest, I would still be proud and love her if she grows up and work as her cashier but my job as a parent is to make sure I do a good job and give her the best guidance to education so she can have more options when she is older.

I think i would be more inclined to send them to a state primary and then private sec.

Honestly Blossom8 I can tell by your posts that all you want is the best for your child and to be honest I do think people who have not experienced a private education seem to put it down a lot. I would start Private education aiming to get into the Grammar school and if your child does not get in be open to a good state or if you can afford it anything can happen between now and then keep her at private.
Only you really know what is the best for your situation but there are great state school and Private schools around , do not be put off by the few who are a bit ignorant with regards to private school

I don't know that people are putting down the private sector, I think rather it is about being realistic about chances of being able to tell whether a 3yr old will be likely to pass a highly selective 11+. It's not even about being pushy, but with rising birthrates, grammars not able to expand in the usual way etc, it may be more realistic to hope for grammar, but plan for the alternatives too. If Blossom8 can afford private all the way, then no problem, but she implied that it might be tough financially, in which case why not save money now - i.e.put away in bank, go to good state primary (assuming any spaces), tutor for 11+, but if she doesn't pass have back up of private secondary. If it were a choice I would rather send to state primary and private secondary, than a lovely private primary but a rougher secondary. After all the end game here has to be GCSEs and A levels, whichever route you take. With 3 little ones, mine will think themselves well prepared if we do a few Letts practise papers! Private would be lovely, but not on our income!

our current prep school will absolutely not help with 11+ entry - they firmly believe the children should take the CE and continue on in the private setor; as 11+ and CE are very different, there is no advantage at all in sending a child to our school if you want to maximise chances at 11+. On the other hand there is a wonderful prep nearby that actively and strongly supports prep for the 11+ their results are outstanding - something like 2/3rd of the children pass. So do be very careful - many independant schools will not help you with the 11+ so you need to ask very direct questions!

Thanks for your reassuring input Diva85, I felt abit better after reading your post, I honestly just want to do my best for my child whether it be grammar, independent secondary or move to a good state comp. I can't help but worry when I see some of the behaviour of some kids in my area and with last summer's riots.

I do agree with you Janet41, the selective prep that we have to wait until Oct for the assessment for 4+ plus entry does not prepare for the 11+ as I assume they want the kids to transfer from their prep to their senior school. We turned down a different prep that do prepare for the 11+ recently that we wanted our child to get into but they wanted her to start when she is 3 and half which I thought was too much for a child at that age going to nursery 5 times a week and she is happy at the nursery where she goes to at the moment 3 times a week. So I am keeping my fingers cross that a place at this prep will become available when she starts at reception or later.

3duracellbunnies (great post name) - I know where you are coming from. If she did not pass the 11+ or want to go to grammar then I will decide then what to do but it makes sense to save money for secondary so thanks for your input.

Hi Could you please recommend a English tutor to help my son to prepare for 11 plus exams. We live in Chigford. Thanks

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
We want to give our daughter best education as any parent would dream of and so as we and with that intention we started to coach our daughter for 11plus grammar entrance this September and last week she has scored 80% which was held by KSOL and we are aiming for Buckinghamshire but as things are tight and financial constraint we may not be able to move but still we haven’t cancelled upcoming MoCKs which we have booked , is there any way if she continues in normal state schools what best we can do
is there any SCHOLARSHIPS LIKE THAT SO WE AIM TO GET BEST FOR HER, is really disheartening to as she is doing great but we not able to move .
many thanks and regards .

Woodford isn't your only option, many in Waltham forest apply for latymers and ilford as well

Ilford County High School is a boys' school, so no-one will be applying for both it and WCHS for the same child (okay, a few might - I've seen people name infant schools on their secondary CAF before now).

The Latymer School gives priority to applicants from within its defined catchment area (and does its best to ensure that it is never in the position where it has to offer places to OOC applicants. Some of the postcodes may be in the London Borough of Waltham Forest; you need to check the list on the school's website.