Y1 phonics check

[piellabakewell]

You can see it in action here so you know what we are putting them through!

We have a GTP student who will be teaching almost full time by then - her class teacher would cover my class.

We have a final year student in Y4 so the Y4 teacher can cover my class.

Just luck then! We haven't got any students at the moment, so will have to juggle staff somehow for the 6 hours of testing.

I think it's quite daft to pose this potential financial burden on the school, as the children would be far more at ease with a familiar KS1 TA rather than the HT or lit co-ordinator.

There's nothing to stop the Y1 teacher doing it though, is there? I'm only doing it because I did a filming project in Y1 recently, so they know me fairly well.

I think whoever does the testing the school needs to be confident in their phonics knowledge. In some cases I think TAs could be more knowledgeable

But mrz, that's not the context that we're using decode in, is it? When the child reads yaz or blurp or frenz they're not extracting any meaning because those words have no meaning. And even if the child can read and say Achaean it still won't know what it means. In order to extract meaning you need to look the word up in the dictionary and phonics has nothing to say about looking words up in the dictionary. In phonics there actually isn't any decoding (in the dictionary sense) going on. There's merely uttering.

Decoding in phonics is just a jargonny word which has nothing to do with what decoding really means.

One of our TAs does all of the RWI testing in Y1, 6 times a year, and is far more efficient at it than any of the teachers! This phonics check is just a RWI assessment by another name, so we feel a bit bitter about having to buy supply cover to do the same job.

But hey... I'll shut up now!

learnandsay it isn't a reading test!
think of it like a times tables test ...it's checking a single skill

learnandsay, this is a test on the building blocks of reading (phonics), just to check that children are able to decode by breaking the words into their phonic components. If the children can't do this, their chances of being able to read and comprehend are zero. In schools that don't already do this kind of tracking, it will highlight children who need intervention.

The end of key stage one assessments in Y2 will level their comprehension and reading for meaning.

After all phonics has been the principal method of reading instruction since the 15th century until recent years when Look & Say was imported from the USA with dismal results

Yes, our discussion got off the subject of the test and onto reading in general and phonics in general. That's likely to happen when there are claims like such and such is necessary or such and such can only be done in this way....

Their chances of learning to read are not zero.

Lots of people can read but can not read gobbledegook.

*In phonics there actually isn't any decoding (in the dictionary sense) going on. There's merely uttering.

Decoding in phonics is just a jargonny word which has nothing to do with what decoding really means.*

I think we be mixing up our definitions here. I thought phonics was decoding to work out how the written words sound. It is separate from comprehension and the two together make a good reader.

Am I wrong??

I bow to your superior knowledge and experience learnandsay

It doesn't matter how much experience or knowledge anyone has got if their argument is faulty. Their passion may be admirable but that doesn't give them the right to say such and such is necessary when it isn't. Everything I've ever heard mentioned in this forum ever about phonics is merely optional. That essentially is the only point I've ever been making and nobody has yet contradicted it.

perhaps you should get your dictionary out and check your first sentence learnandsay

b-l-ur-p

4 sounds. I can read it like that, as can most 6 year olds who know those sounds. RWI always have nonsense words in the assessments and the children aren't phased at all.
We've trialled the phonics check and the results were exactly as expected. It's no big deal.

Is this thread anything to do with it being Friday 13th? Or, is it Groundhog Day?

Learnand say:

If someone gave you a piece of paper with sets of numbers on it and said that it was a piece of text where the letters had been replaced by numbers, when you worked it out you would find that each number represented (meant) a letter. It is a code. You have decoded it. You could go even further and assign a 'sound' to each letter (or maybe a group of letters) and, hey presto, more decoding (the letters mean sounds).

Then you could put all the sounds together and produce a word, of which you might, or might not, know the meaning. Is the last bit decoding or uttering?

not without a dictionary

considering the time and cost this may have for schools surely there is proportion of children it would be pointless carrying out the test with. I can think off many of the children in my childs class who would have passed this test in YR. Those are only the ones I know well. surely it would be a complete waste of time carrying this test out with those children.

I can think off many of the children in my childs class who would have passed this test in YR.

Is this because they were very good at decoding and blending and had excellent letter/sound knowledge or because (you think) they were 'good readers'?

because they where and are still good/ advanced readers and decoding and blending far beyond the sound combinations in the video now at 6 in y1

It will take 4-9 mins per child, so roughly 2 - 5 hours to check 30 children so that there are no shocks when one of the children you didn't bother to check suddenly has problems and you discover they weren't as secure in their knowledge as you thought.

that is a fair point mrz, I wasnt being critical I was just wondering if it was worth going through the motions with children who obviously would pass it, if there are concerns about time and financial constraints. I also wondered about the benifits of doing this so late in y1 as in my dds class y1 they impliment early support for those who appear to be struggling in the middle of the frst term. Im not a teacher so have far less knowledge but I would have thought supporting those who struggle early on prior to y2 would have more benifits.

I agree the check would be better at the beginning of Y1 but think of the headlines ... evil schools testing 5 year olds!!

I think most schools will already carry out a similar screening check as part of the regular assessment process so that strugglers can be supported early.
Mumblesmum said her school uses a similar check to group pupils for phonics teaching.