Y1 phonics check

[piellabakewell]

You can see it in action here so you know what we are putting them through!

I really wish we had an edit button!

When I say 'the problem I have with phonics' - I don't have any problem with phonics generally, it's just that I don't think it necessarily extrapolates to adult-hood in the way it's sometimes described as doing. It does seem to be a really good way into reading for kids, and I'm not going to argue against teaching it at all!

That leads to the problem with words like Achaean in which case the reader might not know either how to pronounce it or what it means. Phonics can't help you with that.

and if you didn't have a dictionary to hand?

I look words up online when I can't get to my dictionary.

but how would you know how to pronounce the word?

I don't like relying on a dictionary. That's been a irritation I have had to put up with for a very long time.

I do like being able to use the rules to work it out!

You wouldn't. But phonics doesn't teach you how to pronounce Achaean. You either know how to pronounce it or you don't. You'd need somebody you trusted to know how to pronounce it to tell you how to say it.

If you look it up, either in a dictionary, or online, or on your phone, there is usually a phonetic spelling, so you can find out how to pronounce it.

MigratingCoconuts - as soon as you have options, you can't use the rules to work something out - because you don't know which rule it is obeying in that instance.

You can use the rules to get plausible possibilities though.

Good thing you are not in a position where you might be asked to read something out because those listening wouldn't be impressed if you said hang on a minute while I look up this word ...

But phonics doesn't teach you how to pronounce Achaean

What is it about 'achean' that you find difficult, learnandsay?

Learning phonics hasn't taught you to say the word consulting the phone, dictionary or expert has. That's what I'm saying.

yes, I do know that!.... but I am sick of looking thick and having to double check words like that rather than just understand the rules by which I can decode it myself.

but sicne Achaean is undecodable due to it being a foreign word, we should do away with it all

I was wondering that too Feenie

exactly so mrz...as a secondary school Biology teacher, it has always been a complete bloody nightmare

Maybe not, mrz. But is that better than mispronouncing it? Phonics tells us that there are sometimes several ways of pronouncing certain letter combinations. But without guidance, how do we know which is the correct choice at any particular moment?

Lots of words in English come from abroad.

Good thing you are not in a position where you might be asked to read something out because those listening wouldn't be impressed if you said hang on a minute while I look up this word ..

Well - in a teaching capacity, I think it would be more important for the class to hear the correct pronunciation, rather than a guess based on phonics rules, which may or may not apply.....because the phonics rules will only tell you the possibilities, it won't tell you which one it actually is.

Its definately better than the technique I was taught by and left me struggling for years with literacy (I got there in the end, luckily...but I was one of those 20% feenie mentioned for a while there)

however, off to do something more interesting than argue with the inflexibles!

Very wise, MigratingCoconuts

I'm not inflexible, I am totally pro-phonics, especially for littlies, I just think it's not as comprehensive as some think, especially as you get older. And with English being the way it is, with some spellings having multiple pronunciations, phonics can only give you the options, it can't tell you which it is, to know that you would have to either recognise the word, ask someone or look it up.

(and by comprehensive, I really don't mean 'so you should teach mixed methods', just to head that one off, I mean it's not a case of 'learn phonics and you will be able to work out comprehensively every single words ever written').

GAH every single WORD not words!!!

Is Achaean your Achilles heel as you aren't aware that with Greek words 'ch' is pronounced /k/. Christos, chemistry, chaos and hundreds of other words. Surely by year 2 or 3 children will know this?