Reading bands and does any of it really matter if the child can already read?

[learnandsay]

My daughter is too young to have encountered a reading band of any colour or type so she's reading ordinary books like The Cat in the Hat, Green Eggs and Ham and Where the Wild Things Are. Of course Dr Seuss' books are already a restricted new-reader vocabulary series of books, which Dr Seuss' associates Flesch and Hersey challenged Seuss aka Ted Geisel to write, in response to a much earlier public panic called Why Johnny Can't read. (I think it's followed up by Why Johnny Still Can't Read. I read up about the debate a while ago when I was learning about the argument between phonics and look and say adherents.)

Essentially what I'm saying is she reads whichever children's books are in the house, with some success and a fair amount of determination, when reading time comes along. Now, my question is this: When she gets to school in September will this continue? Or will she get put on some kind of graded reading system? I've got a strong feeling that if I don't agree with the books the school gives my daughter to read I'll just ignore them and send her into school with what I'd consider proper children's books of the kind you'd buy to read to your children or borrow from the library, not formulaic or bland books for reading learners. (On the other hand, of course, if I like the books and find them interesting and challenging for her, I'll read them with her whether they're part of a reading scheme or not.)

I know L&S, but it was just the way you talked about ignoring/rejecting the school's scheme and just using your own that worried me.

Threads do tend to digress...!

OK, but I'm really, really interested in the reading scheme question. Another thread has just opened up on this same topic but for a much older girl. I'm going to follow that one.

I really didn't mean my post to come across as a personal attack. Your comments are combative, For example:
'send her into school with what I'd consider proper children's books of the kind you'd buy to read to your children or borrow from the library, not formulaic or bland books for reading learners'.
'I don't think it'll be a huge problem for me. I think it might become more of an issue for the school if it wants me to participate in a reading scheme with my child that I think is ridiculous. I suspect I'd just ignore it. Going by my previous experience of things and systems that I don't like that's what normally happens'.

I agree with the provide learning support at home and read very similar things with my 5 year old.

My DS started Reception in September and in my limited experience reading bands do matter. Even if your child can race through the books (as mine does), they are part of wider learning experience. My Ds's school are happy about the plethora of reading material available at home and are supportive of the very different approach I use. My DS has a learning journal and we can share information there rather than sending in reading books from home.

How you parent is entirely your own business. Whilst your intention is to open a discussion about exclusively about reading, other parents will have an opinion about other aspects you have shared.

Reading bands and does any of it really matter if the child can already read?
Yes.

Reading schemes are bonding material for yr r.

They are all weirdly excited about moving up a level etc. even if they've already read war and peace.

I'd say they don't matter hugely (for my kids) but I'm quite happy to understand that this is the system. And comply with it.

They can read whatever they like at home. And always did. But as I said, most schools assess the kid and start them at an appropriate level anyway.

I'm not sure why you are so obsessive about this, tbh. You are planning on having a problem - nay, have already decided there is a problem, and your child hasn't even started school. And is reading. Clearly there isn't a problem yet. And may never actually be. (although you seem to be working quite hard to create one, just in case...)

Can you not find something a bit more tangible to fret about?

Are you quite nervous about the whole starting school thing, and deflecting this into an obsessive reading scheme thing?

OP has left but I meant to say 'I agree with the way you provide..'

Egg rules, if you want her she's over on the Year 3 reading levels thread and being told exactly the same thing

Just waiting for September and a new thread

I'd like to add my

DS couldn't read at all before he started school and I had no idea that reading schemes existed. I didn't learn to read using phonics but we muddle along doing our own thing at home. With regard to reading bands I can see a wider picture than just reading and have faith in teachers and the school. It is frustrating when books aren't changed or if DS stays on a level he has mastered. Reading is only part of the reception experience. Being independent and emotionally reading is more important for starting school.

Part of the problem, in my experience, is that it is largely down to TA's to change books and they don't often have the authority, expertise, or confidence to move children to the correct level. Many a time they simply just keep ploughing on through the scheme in chronological order, regardless of ability. Teachers are often just concentrating on their guided reading groups and really don't get time to hear children read their reading book, sad, but true.

Isabelle -in which case as a parent do you not simply write in the reading record "This was a very straightforward read, please could we have something more challenging"? Our teachers are always delighted when paretns pay this much attention and communicate in this way. It is positively encouraged .

Some of the biff and chip books do my head in, but the DCs LOVE them. My second is in reception now and they have some new books. they are clever and well-constructed and do all the things that the OP said her 'fox in a box' do. I'm starting to wonder what the OP thinks a reading scheme is for . What she describes those books doing is exactly my experience of what school reading books do.

As far as I can tell the Usborne Phonics Readers, (Mouse Moves House is missing from our set) have a restricted sentence range, just as Dr Seuss does. But where UPR concentrate on repeating sounds, big pig, wig, dig, jig, red, ted, shed, bed and so on, Seuss manipulates the whole line would not could not with a goat, not in a house not with a mouse. Seuss teaches children more to manipulate language whereas UPR are manipulating sounds. The sentences in UPR really don't make much sense, whereas Seuss' sentences are absurd or surreal but within the confines of his stories they do make perfect sense. The Lorax and Sneatches are really quite observant social commentaries. Not so sure about Cat in a Hat and Green Eggs and Ham. We don't use the UPR as much as Seuss because their sentence construction is more limited than his is and whereas Seuss in some cases is telling us something about the world, the UPR set never is. I do use the UPR to check that we're not overlooking anything though. I think simplistic books (perhaps not dull ones though) can be useful for making sure that she can read everything at the basic level. But only every now and again. What's the point of reading Dick and Jane See Spot the Dog level of difficulty books all the time? You make sure she can read D&J books, sure. But when you're sure she can read them then you move on. If somebody, be it teacher or TA hasn't assessed either her, her reading or her books sufficiently well and is still giving her D&J books long after she's finding them too easy then you substitute the easy books for harder ones. It seems obvious to me. I can't really understand why it's not so obvious to some other people.

Nobody will give her Peter and Jane books. They are based on look and say method of teaching and wouldn't be used in schools now. Suess books are fun, but wouldn't be in an early reading scheme because they also rely on word recognition of phonic sounds that may not yet been learnt (-ou in would and could can also be -u as in young but is usually recognised first as -ow as in out).

Your DD may be able to recognise would and could, but possibly not yet be able to decode the word 'throughout' by herself. Once she has a full phonic grounding she would be able to do that. Usually you have to have a have a full comprehension of the rules before you can play about with or manipulate the system. Dr Suess obviously has that understanding which is why his books are fun, but I would be surprised if a 3 year old does. I really can't see why it's not obvious to some people. Oh yes, that's because you haven't actually done a reading scheme yet .

But please come back and tell us all when you do. :o

Are there really still schools that use Dick and Jane?? Ours certainly don't! Do you actually know what books your school read? There are loads of great schemes out there. For example these.

Personally I cannot stand Dr Seuss.

Learnandsay, it's really not a huge problem when you get into it. Both my boys (Year 3 and Reception), love the scheme books. When they are clearly confident at a level, a quick word in the reading record, and they are moved on, sometimes skipping large chunks of the scheme. They still read lots of other books, including Dr Suess and Usrbourne, but the scheme books do seem to introduce a wider range of topics/phonics etc. They vary from fiction, plays, information books, poems etc. They are also quite amusing.

My DS1 finished the scheme in Year 2, and is probably a NC mid level 4 for reading now (year 3), so he is a strong reader, but he loved the scheme books.

I would just wait and see what happens, tbh.

Learnandsay - did you not ask how the children are taught to read / what scheme etc they used when you visited your catchment school? It seems a bit odd that you don't know what your DD will be doing there especially If it is such an important issue to you

I personally can't see any value in reading books to your DD that she doesn't comprehend - especially if you don't either!

Thanks, dizzy. Can you tell me why the baby turns into a pig in Alice in Wonderland?

Better, she can read through and she can read out. We've never come across throughout so I don't know what'll happen when it comes along.

If you like Dr Seuss the Rag Tag Rhyme reading scheme might meet your approval
www.yellow-door.net/ragtag-rhymes

Learnandsay. The baby turns into a pig because wonderland exists as an irrational alternative to the morals of Victorian society. Therefore the Duchess treats the baby cruelly at a time when babies were beginning to be held in much higher regard. It is also a play on the words 'change a baby',

OK, shot. But why a pig, why not a calf or a puppy? I think what I'm trying to say is that there are a few arbitrary things in the story. Say for example, when Alice is falling down the rabbit hole she manages to pick books of shelves and partially read them. But if the items are in a vertical shaft without any reasonable approaches to them, then who do they belong to and how are they used? What are the doors for in the hallway that Alice gets stuck in? The last door leads to the garden. But what are all of the other doors for and why have them at all?

Thanks, mrz. We will have a look at those. Interesting.

Well it's a pig because pigs are ugly, dirty and have very negative connotations - the very antithesis of a Victorian baby.

To be honest, I'm not going to explain the whole book to you. It's a fantasy novel about a dream world that is very much at odds with the Victorian society Carroll was critiquing. It's a dream world which therefore does not need logic or rationality.

You wouldn't be explaining it, you'd be giving me your interpretation of it.

There's no reason why your interpretation should be any more valid than anybody else's. The point I'm making is that you can't very well command that people don't read books that they don't understand, there are books as you say don't need logic or reality. But we're still free to enjoy them without it.

Well no, and I wouldn't expect a book report on everything that was read and of course everyone is allowed to interpret literature differently. That is what we learn to do as readers and what sets 'good' adult readers apart from poor ones, even though we can probably all technically read the words.

You will find that reading schemes do this very well, introducing ideas slowly, such as plot development, expression, guessing what happens next through to conveying emotion, views of the author etc.

Then, by the time they are ready to read something like Alice in Wonderland, they will have all the skills necessary, even if they are not working at a deeper philosophical or historical level.

Now, she may enjoy the sound of your voice whilst she's eating, and she may recognise some of the words, but I very much doubt she yet has the requisite skills.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't read it to her but understand that this is one of the important roles of the reading schemes which shouldn't be overlooked.