Reading bands and does any of it really matter if the child can already read?

[learnandsay]

My daughter is too young to have encountered a reading band of any colour or type so she's reading ordinary books like The Cat in the Hat, Green Eggs and Ham and Where the Wild Things Are. Of course Dr Seuss' books are already a restricted new-reader vocabulary series of books, which Dr Seuss' associates Flesch and Hersey challenged Seuss aka Ted Geisel to write, in response to a much earlier public panic called Why Johnny Can't read. (I think it's followed up by Why Johnny Still Can't Read. I read up about the debate a while ago when I was learning about the argument between phonics and look and say adherents.)

Essentially what I'm saying is she reads whichever children's books are in the house, with some success and a fair amount of determination, when reading time comes along. Now, my question is this: When she gets to school in September will this continue? Or will she get put on some kind of graded reading system? I've got a strong feeling that if I don't agree with the books the school gives my daughter to read I'll just ignore them and send her into school with what I'd consider proper children's books of the kind you'd buy to read to your children or borrow from the library, not formulaic or bland books for reading learners. (On the other hand, of course, if I like the books and find them interesting and challenging for her, I'll read them with her whether they're part of a reading scheme or not.)

then I think, to be honest, you need to calm down a little.

Learning phonics is incredibly useful when learning to write your own compositions and she may struggle if she's skipped this stage in her reading.

DS has made steady progress in his reading (now in year one) and his writing has improved alongside it. He is well above average for his year.

His teacher is often very reluctant to move up book bands, especially if pressured by parents, as she maintains there is much more to reading than knowing what the words are. As she put it 'some of my children can read Harry Potter but haven't the faintest idea what it's about'.

Your DD isn't going to start school for another 6 months.

To be honest, I think that you need to wait until she starts school.

Have you taught her phonics? Can she actually read, or does she just have a good memory?

Either way she sounds as though she is a bright girl and will do well regardless.

To be honest this discussion is about reading. My daughter can't ride a motorcycle very well either. But that has nothing to do with how well she can read.

Hi Isabelle,

Yes she can read. On the whole I'd say that her memory, like mine, is disappointing. There's a certain amount of in one ear and out the other going on. I'd imagine she'll be fine. It's me that I'm worried about.

You're reading Lewis Carroll with a 4 yr old? Really! I know it's an interesting story, but surely way above her comprehension of anything but the most basic level.

I'm sure she can read well, but don't race and forget to look at the scenery...

Well, we've finished it. She wanted to restart tonight but I was too tired. Above her comprehension? Some of it's above my comprehension. We're reading Paddington too. She does ask reasonable questions though, (usually vocabulary explanations. ) The books are accidental. They needed to be long because she wouldn't sit still long enough to eat unless the TV was on and I could feed her when she wasn't looking. My partner hates this. So I agreed to feed her at the table. I got her to sit still by reading and shovelling food into her mouth while she's listening. It wasn't about the stories at all, at first.

My dd's class all started on the same level in reception. They didn't bring books home for the first term, the emphasis was all on phonics, even the brightest didn't know everything. Then, as the year went on those kids that grasped reading quickly moved on more rapidly through the levels than others. Now in Y2 some children have completed the reading scheme books and are now independent readers while others are still ploughing on.

The reading and writing go hand in hand once they start school though. If she's reading it but not recognising the phonic sounds in it then she'll need to work on that so she can use it in her writing.

When I said my DD comprehends perfectly, obviously I mean the books she's reading which are suitable for her age. I wouldn't give her Lewis Carroll to read because she wouldn't comprehend that. Why are you reading her something she doesn't comprehend? That's one way to put her off reading!

I think you need to think through what messages you convey to your dd about school, her teacher, homework, the importance of following rules etc.

I think you will get further with the school if you try to work with them than if you ignore them or set yourself up against them. This does not mean accepting everything they do without question, but think about how and when (and in whose presence) you talk to them about any issues, and bear in mind what they need to see from your dd and why, and what other demands the teacher may have on their time as well as just you and your dd.

As others have said, you can do whatever you like in addition at home. You can, of course, request more appropriate levels of material if what is being sent home is too simple, and you can ask for explanations of why they are doing things a certain way.

Others have already made all the points I would about the importance of phonics and comprehension.

I have always taken the approach that if there are things my DCs manage easily and are good at in reception, then I would rather the teacher focussed on other aspects. Making friends, learning to cope in a structured environment and behave well in a class of 30, taking turns without intensive prompting, coping with simple (but often surprisingly challenging things) like remembering to go to the toilet and coping with wiping independently, dealing with a fear of hand driers, coping with tiredness towards the end of the day, deling with falling out with friends, learning to motivate themselves when Mummy is not micromanaging every pencil stroke etc. These are all vitally important things for the reception-aged child. Learning to love school and feel happy there so they can flourish and learn well is very important, and arguably more important than what they achieve academically aged 4-5.

Yes, you don't want them to be bored and if that happens you can address is. But, if they have intelligent, interested, motivated parents and are bright themselves, then they are extremely likely to do very well at school, irrespective of the level of academic accomplishment in the reception year.

Learnandsay, you seem quite aggressive and pushy and I'm backing out of this thread as you don't appear to have come here looking for advice, just confirmation of your own opinion.

However your description of meal times has made me think that maybe you need to concentrate on developing other areas of your DD's social skills, rather than ensuring she's too advanced for teachers to manage.

DS was a very able self-taught pre-school reader.

As other posters have said, after a fairly short time the school realised this and allowed him to progress rapidly through the 'formal' reading scheme, meaning he ended up with a pretty free choice of books from all of KS1 by mid-Reception.

He was taught phonics with his class, but with a focus on using it for writing / spelling rather than reading.

When he moved school at the end of Year 1, he was 'restarted' on a banded book scheme, and integrated into guided reading. Tbh, this was hugely beneficial to him - although he was excellent at the 'technical' aspects of reading (decoding, comprehension), having a more structured in-school reading approach meant that he got to practice all the other aspects of reading / book understanding (text types, reading for inference, motive, emotion [hard for him as he is on the autistic spectrum], imagining alternative endings etc etc) as well.

Have to say, though, except for a quick 10 minute scamper through a section of his school book every now and again, his 'home' reading diet (both for reading and being read to) remained the same throughout - a wide selection of children's ficton and detailed adult / older child non-fiction, often about science or sport, plus chunks of the newspaper. I do differentiate 'learning reading skills', which I think reading schemes and in-school guided reading are excellent for from 'being a reader', for which just having a wide variety of printed matter around is essential.

DD, who didn't read a word until she started school, has followed a more standard route of rapid progress through the school's structured reading scheme, and her choice of home reading matter has been much more 'in step' with that provided at school (early chapter books at the same time as she read more extended texts at school, for example).

I don't give her Lewis Carroll to read, muffin.., I read it to her so that she will sit still long enough for me to shovel food in her face.

Does she feed herself? If not that is a far far higher priority than what she can or can't read. How old is she?

OP you seem to have a large number of firm beliefs about primary school without any experience of having a DC at one. Have you arrived at these views through other types of experience?

As with other environments where my DCs spend/have spent significant time (nursery, childcare etc) I have found it's important to keep an open mind and accept that I am unlikely to agree with everything all of the time. If there are battles though, it's worth picking them as things work best as a partnership.

There is so much more to reading than just pronouncing words on the page as other posters have said and if your dd has no writing experience then there is plenty for her learn - there is very little advantage academically in racing ahead in reading though many do. My DD1 had some crazy reading age by year 1 but it all becomes largely irrelevant within 3 years ime

You sound almost as if it's your way or no way and I suspect the school may not welcome that approach with open arms.

By the way, shouldn't your 4yo be feeding herself? Most of the time anyway

Just to add, sometimes not v obvious non-adademic activities are actually extremely important for developing academic skills.

As an example, my eldest was a reluctant writer. He wasn't v good at colouring neatly either. His very astute teacher observed that he didn't like using a pencil/crayon/pen and correctly deduced that it was because he didn't have the manual dexterity to manipulate these tools finely enough to achieve results he wanted, so he didn't bother. She encouraged him to "write" by making marks in sand or foam or paint with his fingers, initially just patterns, then progressing to letter formations. She also gave him many opportunities to develop the muscles in his fingers by playing with fiddly small beads, making models out of plasticine (stiffer and harder work than playdough) etc. Suddenly he became interested in writing implements, and was soon producing whole pages of text . I think her approach was probably a LOT more productive than standing over him insisting he write and correcting his every mistake. He also became much better at using a knife and fork and more willing to do so (partly through peer pressure of eating with other children who could use them better than be could).

Similarly, spelling is irrelevant at the beginning, as long as what they write is phonetically plausible. Correct spelling comes later.

I'm not a teacher, but over the time I've had kids at school I've learned more about some of the methods they use and why they do things certain ways. It's good to be open-minded .

1. she wouldn't sit still long enough... I could feed her when she wasn't looking.
   Respectfully - you should invest some time in developing her independence. at school, reception would be expected to self feed, self toilet, self dress, work within a guided group etc with minimal adult intervention.

2. IME the 'more academic' schools are precisely the ones with prescriptive home works/reading bands etc. If your school is more lassaiez faire, you'll probably find you're pushing at an open door with regards to your DD being allowed to read what she wants.

Nonetheless - I wouldn't start out with a negative attitude towards what the school can teach your child. You'd be doing her no favours giving here a head start in being cheeky to teacher and ignoring homework requests. My DS is doing well - he does set homework quickly - and I'll often slip in an extension homework on the end of what I ask him to do, which has been positively received by our (lovely but also not especially pushy) school.

I would suggest that you send her to a more academic school tbh.

My DD was reading decoding way above age-expected levels, but she just had no comprehension of what she was reading, she needed to read the books in the lower bands to round-out her comprehension skills, and understand the development of stories (despite us reading to her from birth, and her being able to recognise and sound-out letters at 2.5).

The reading scheme books are just something they have to do really- she's skipped loads of them, they're just for school's sake, and she reads whatever she wants at home, particularly now her comprehension has improved. She isn't restricted at school in what she can take out from their library either (hence me having to remove a Jaqueline Wilson from her bag in reception).

Obviously I've never learned to type well, however

She'll be four in a couple of months. She only feeds herself bird helpings at an agonisingly slow pace interspersed by endless forays from the table to fetch random toys and opportunities to make observations on the world at large. (That is unless she's accompanied by children her own age in which case she usually finishes her plate first. But that only happens every few weeks in our house.)

But when I read to her I can get the food down at a satisfactory pace and in decent quantities.

Wot pestopenguin said.

I think you need to watch how you talk and think about school - it's better IME to have a positive attitude to something and somewhere that will play a big part in all your lives.

Why are you "shovelling food in the face" of a four-year-old btw?

Sorry lots of x-posts with mine.

But still finding pestopenguin talkign sense. OP I would concentrate if I were you on getting your about to start reception child to eat her own food tbh. If she only eats when you feed her that's going to be a big issue at school.

She only feeds herself bird helpings at an agonisingly slow pace interspersed by endless forays from the table to fetch random toys and opportunities to make observations on the world at large.

I think she and school will thank you a lot more for teaching her some decent table manners. Her writing will improve if she is made to use a knife and fork. At school she will not be able to get down from the table and wander around and the staff will not thank you if she thinks she can.

My children aren't allowed to read at the table either .

That sounds like extremely irritating, but totally age-appropriate behaviour.

Observations on the world at large? Excellent, a scientist in the making , with no doubt excellent vocabulary and an endless stream of questions to drive you demented .

Could you work at getting her to sit on her chair throughout the meal, ban toys at the table (and deal with the ensuing tantrums whilst she realises you're serious) and allow her to feed herself the amount she wants to eat even if it is v small, clearing the meal away without fuss after what you consider a reasonable time? Setting boundaries and sticking to them will help her to cope with discipline at school .

It is really not good to be feeding a nearly four year old and the portion sizes they need are surprisingly small. There are photo resources for portion sizes here.

She's barely out of the toddler stage, and it sounds like there's plenty of normal stuff to focus on before worrying about school book bands. By all means keep reading to her, but please stop shovelling food into her, as that could cause all sorts of issues later.

x post Clary

When it comes to eating, going to the toilet etc, I think there's a huge difference between what she's capable of and what she's willing to do when she's got mum here to do it for her. Sometimes when I've really got my hands full and she's screaming Mummy I need a wee, which means take me to the loo, watch me, wipe me and then wash my hands, all of which she's more than capable of doing on her own (she has to at nursery or at friend's houses) then I say do it like your friend Elsie, who's renowned for being independent and can suspend herself over an adult size loo seat successfully. My daughter can too.

Then she comes into the kitchen with a pained look on her face and says Mum. I don't want to go like Elsie. The same kind of thing would have been true for eating if I didn't read to her. So I do, and she eats. That's happiness, I reckon.