Feeling very low - Will my little girl ever be able to read?

[KMRRmum]

My daughter is in her first year at school (4 not 5 until May)and she is making no progress in her letter sounds and reading. Those that she knows today she will have forgotten tomorrow. I was suprised at this as she talked very early and is very articulate with great vocabulary.I spoke to her teacher several weeks ago but she didn't know if she had a problem or she just couldn't be bothered! I asked her if there was anything i should be doing but she just said keep doing her sounds. My daughter is quite feisty and the teacher says that she is disengaged in class, sometimes challenges her, fidgets with things and she doesnt put her hand up! I just feel that everything she does is wrong .

I have come away feeling so upset. I know its stupid but i have cried every night since finding this out and my mood has become very low. Ifeel that I have failed my daughter in some way! I also feel very defensive now of her when I am at school.

Could anyone recommend some things for me to do so that I can help my daughter. Does she have some sort of problem that I'm not aware of? I just feel she has been written off at the age of 4!

I'm not expert, sure someone will be along very soon who knows more, but had to reply. Heart goes out to you for being so upset, but she's so little and sounds pretty normal for a 4-year-old cooped up in a classroom. My mum didn't learn to read till she was six (less pressure back then) and she's an English teacher. Of course if you think there's a real issue then keep an eye/raise it again with the teacher in a constructive way. But chances are she'll get there and there shouldn't be any rush.

She sounds like a typical 4 year old to me. My 4 year old cant read yet (June birthday), he is working on the sounds and reading cvc words and is on the ball one day and forgets it the next. He is on an average book band in his class- lots above and below him.
It sounds like your dd teacher was very negative. I would be asking what they are doing to try to engage your dd, it doesn't reflect well on a teacher to have a disengaged 4 year old!
As for fidgeting, well she is 4!!

Keep doing what you are doing, read to her, play games which require a bit of attention etc

Might be worth telling your dd to put her hand up if she can answer the teacher or wants to tell her something- my ds wasn't bothering as he assumed the teacher had already chosen a child to put their hand up

First thing is, don't panic, she's only 4, you have time. Second, DO NOT assume she'll be fine (ie it'll "click" for her soon), she may well have additional learning needs. Your description of your DD could have been m

DS is just like this (he was 5 in feb)

His teacher has said he doesn't make progress by easter, they'll put him on a extra needs programme ( I don't know if the wording is correct, I was a bit confused/gutted by this point, and had just noticed another parent necking in)
Apparently the teacher was on this herself, and it's really helpful if there is a problem.
Maybe this will be suggested in the future if needed?

I felt exactly as you described too after parents evening. Only natural I'd imagine.

As Jennifer said, all we can do is keep at it.
Good luck

Personally I don't believe that knowing our letter sounds is the b all and end all of reading. I know some people do think this but I'm not one of them. I started showing my daughter words when she was two. I started with poo, boo, woo, wee, hee, fee, and so on, and then went on to cat, dog, pig, cow and so on, about two months later. I'd spread the words out on the floor and call a name out and she would run and fetch that word for me. She's three now and can read Dr Suess. And it's only now that I'm teaching her the letter sounds and sound combinations. My own feeling is that for some children teaching them sounds instead of actually how to read words, then sentences, then books actually holds them back. Not all children are the same and not all people are the same. So it makes no sense to me that one method should best suit everybody.

She is little, too much pressure is very counter productive. Look at the adults around you and the ones reading Flaubert at 3 are usually indistinguishable from those not reading well until much older. I started at 7 having been on the dunce table for early years of Primary. It's a long game...

My sons found reading difficult in Reception.They both left Reception below average. At the end of Reception they knew all their single letter sounds and maybe a couple of digraphs. The older one was in top groups by Y2 and the younger one is average in Y1.

Not all children will have a sudden "click" so keep an eye on her progress. Keep on working at home and check in with the teacher regularly.

Do you read with her (school or home reading books)? Would you agree that she has made no progress? When the teacher means no progress when does she mean the progress stopped? Have you had her hearing and sight checked?

When my dd was in Reception she often played reading and writing games without realising it. For example she enjoyed playing schools and writing a register then reading from it. Lists are less daunting than sentences especially if written on small pieces of paper like a post it note. Lists can be read while shopping, playing restaurants... My children also loved filling in forms- especially if the form had squares for the bits that you fill in. I-Spy is also lots of fun for most kids.

The best advice that I can offer is keep working at it- short bursts regularly adds up to lots of practice, especially if you keep on doing it during long holidays like the summer. Like the story tortoise and the hare, it is possible to overtake the hare if you keep on working at it.

I wouldn't worry yet. My DS was 6, nearly 7 before he could read and now he's top groups and reading books way above his age in Yr3. Main advice we were given was to keep the enthusiasm for books going and read to them lots. Also to try very hard not to make them feel like they're dim or not getting it.

Of course 'keep an eye', by all means, but at the same time....can't help feeling a tad on your and your dd's behalf.

A bright, feisty 4 year old is quite likely to challenge her teacher (not a negative thing, IMO!), fidget, and if she is bored she will disengage. I wouldn't automatically make it all the child's problem, without knowing more about the class, the teacher, and the teaching methods

There are several 4 year olds in dd's Reception class who are not remotely interested in letters and reading yet. I remember one girl in dd1's class (now Y3) who barely read till she was at least 6: she is now one of the more advanced readers in the class - she just wasn't interested before.

Personally, with a child of this age, I would back off for a bit then try again - but that may not be popular with the teacher.

Don't worry too much at this age. Reading is one of those things that just clicks for some children.

DS2 is in YR and we have turned letter learning into a game. I write a couple of letters on post it notes and we take turns to hide them in the room then play hunt the "b" etc. I often get it spectacularly wrong mixing up letters etc. only to be corrected by a delighted 4 yr old.

I have also got some whiteboard markers and let DS2 write on the fridge door with them which encourages him to write letters because lets face it, writing on the fridge is miles better than writing in a book .

Can I add something too? In France they don't actively 'teach' them how to read. The children attend maternelle from the age of about 4 up until they are 6 when they then go to school. The focus is very much on learning through play and children, by the time they go to school, actually want to learn to read. We could learn a lot from their attitude.

My dd went to a French school until she was 6 when we moved back here. She started school in year 2 and was the only child in her class who couldn't read. I used a method called Toe by Toe which you can get on Amazon and that worked wonders, within 6 months she had caught up. I also used it on ds who was also a slow starter and his teachers commented on how well he was doing too.

Every child is different and at the age of 4 there aren't many children who can sit still in class and pay full attention to the teacher. I do worry that we put so many expectations on our children as we are so keen that they should fit in with the rest. We have this wonderful vision of our kids being the brightest, being ahead of their ages etc, we all want the best for them so when they don't achieve that we can feel disappointed and a failure in ourselves. She is only 4 years old, I think both you and the teacher need to cut her a bit of slack. She will catch up with the rest of them, they all do in the end. In my ds' class in Year 2 there were those who could read brilliantly and those who still struggled with every other word. But they all get their eventuality at their own pace.

Read to her as much as you can, generate a love of books. Use Toe by Toe if you like but don't push or pressurise her as she will feel your anxiety and this will set her back even more. Gently encourage and make it fun.

there eventually must remember to preview these posts!

Dd1 didn't want to read in reception, she made some progress (feb birthday), but not loads, considering she was holding in depth conversations with adults before she was 2. For her there were a few issues, she didn't want to read because she was worried that we would stop reading to her, and also she didn't see the point. It was only as she became aware that her friends were moving through stages and she wasn't as much that she wanted to do it more, also when I felt she could read them, I got her some books but said she had to read them instead of me, curiosity took over.

I'm not saying that you don't need to be concerned, but at her age there could be a number of explainations for it, all you can do is keep reinforcing the learning at home, and keep an eye on her progress. A change of teacher in yr 1 might have a change too.

I think Toe by Toe is one of the schemes teachers use with children who are a little behind with their reading skills. To be fair on teachers in this country, I think the pressure sometimes comes more from parents' interpretation of what is expected of their children than from the teachers. For example, you don't really make it clear whether the teacher clearly intended to tell you that your dd's behaviour was unacceptable and abnormal for a 4-year old and causing problems in class, or whether she was just trying to tell you more about your dd's day when she was at school and how she was settling in. I think because you took the teacher's comments so personally (which is entirely natural - we all take comments about our loved ones very personally), what you haven't done is have a civilised discussion with your dd's teacher on how your dd's teacher can help your dd feel more at ease within the classroom, which is what seems to be the real problem, here, and the teacher was acknowledging that to you (before you asked her about helping your dd with her reading).

My dd is only now a fluent reader she's 7.5 (and G&T stream at school now). I really really wouldn't worry, dd couldn't read at all in reception or in Yr1.

My dd fidgets and had short attention span too, but she wasn't naughty or disruptive so I let her develope at her own pace and she has.

I couldnt read till I was seven years old either, I can remember the first book I ever read. It didn't hinder my progress later on in life, I went on to university and have professional qualifications and a very good professional career.

If you're happy with her development in all other ways I'd let her be, have books around and read to her, but don't put so much pressure on yourself.

I agree with pp who say it just clicks. DS1, July born, also an early talker with a great vocab. achieved the grand total of 27 of the key words in Yr R (I think the national target is 45 and the school target nearer 100 - whatever, he significantly underperformed). He was bottom of the class and it was very worrying. Add to that the fact that he couldn't write either (but he is dyspraxic) nor do many of the other things required in Yr R and it was a bit depressing and I am pretty sure I shed a few tears over it.

However, something clicked in the Autumn term of Yr 1 and he made a massive improvement. I don't know if it was the more formal way of teaching or the teacher or the fact that DS and I made a bit of a competition of rote learning the key words but he streaked ahead or maybe it was just his time to learn. He was near the top of the class for reading by the end of the spring term of Yr 1. Rote learning will probably be frowned on by some teachers but DS never really got sounding out and phonics and even now, at 11 can't sound out to save his life but the point is that he did eventually 'get' reading however he learnt to do it and now has a reading age well ahead of his actual age.

Your DD will get there. I wouldn't bother with the sounding out and phonics at home - leave that to the teachers. The most important thing I think you can do is keep sharing books with your DD and show her that books are good things and reading is fun. It would be a shame to make reading a chore.

Isn't it a bit risky to say that it will come just give it time? I mean what if it doesn't just come? Then it's too late. I mean, it didn't just come with my sister. She was unable to read at twelve.

I think you do give it time ... but you also keep an eye on it.
A YR child not reading is not a case for concern. A 12 year old not reading clearly is. At some point in between those 2 extremes you acknowledge that maybe your child needs some extra help. I don't think the OP has got to that point yet - in fact the probability is that she will see her child making leaps and bounds in her reading over the next year or so.

learnandsay, there is a big difference between a child aged 4 and a child aged 12. From what the OP has said, most of us agree that there doesn't appear to be anything to worry about.

If, at the age of 6 there is still no progress then it would be worth following that up. But you cannot suspect that every 4yo who doesn't learn to read will never learn. Your sister is unfortunate, but luckily that is rare as nowadays problems get picked up on very quickly by the school.

Well, Rhubarb, you're probably right. But I'd teach my children to read and calculate first, before they got to school, and then the problem wouldn't arise. As for my sister, I can't help feeling that mum and dad were caught napping on the job.

Keep reading reading reading with her. Make it fun - can she spot the main characters name on the page, is there a word beginning with the same letter as her name etc
If she's not interested in the school books find something she is interested in - may be non-fiction, or something about her favourite topic
Point out signs in the supermarket, labels on shelves etc - same thing - "look KMRR - there's a kiwi fruit that begins with a K" etc
Play games with letters and sounds - I-spy, lists of food beginning with the letters of the alphabet (apple, banana, carrot etc)
Practice writing the letters whilst making the sounds but write in a fun way eg in sand, finger paints etc
I used to help by listening to kids in my DCs class read - there were many children that just didn't 'get' reading at all until Y2 so as others have said it's not at all unusual so don't panic. But do keep an eye on things incase she need extra help.

It is too soon to worry at 4 though. A lot of the time, as many of us have shown, children will get there in the end, they just aren't ready at 4. There is is significant evidence that that children in this country start formal education too early so this isn't surprising.

Of course, the OP's DD may be dyslexic but it is much too early to test for that. The best the OP can do is keep an eye on the situation but not get too down about it. Chances are things will turn out OK in the end but if they don't, now is not the time to do anything about it. It really is a case of watch and wait.

It will PROBABLY come with time - but it is also possible that she has problems - so keep an eye on it. If she is forgettig sounds rather than not trying to learn them then she MAY have working memory problems (which are a factor in dyslexia). I am not saying your child is dyslexic - many children do seen to take a while for it to click. However, my dd also had problems learning her sounds (although she has a very good vocabulary) and was picked up early on as having dyslexia. But with additional help she can now read!
Play lots of games with your dd to kep her learn her sounds - if she is active, make them active games. Cards with the sounds on them she has to jump to. Use shaving foam (or salt / sand) to trace the sounds. (dd loved shaving foam - spread it on a tray / table and get her to make the sounds). Use a squirty bottle to make the letter sounds outside with water. Trace the sounds on her back with your finger and get her to guess which one it is ( and get her to do it to you) dd loved all these kinds of games.

Argh! Do something about it now! Assume that she needs extra help ad get it put in place. If she doesn't need it, no harm done, if she does you've saved years of tears and effort. I listened to the "it'll click" brigade and was left with a desperately behind, severely dyslexic child with a mountain to climb, which would have been much smaller if i'd trusted my instincts and started sooner. As for 4 being too young to tell, it is not at all. If your otherwise bright child can't engage with the process of learning to read then something needs looking at - it doesn't need to be stressful, feel positive that you're being proactive.

I know people say that we start formal education too young in this country but the fact of the matter is that we do, and if you leave a child not reading til 7 before you do anything you are effectively locking them out of education as it's taught here. That's very frustrating and damaging for a child

sugartongue I really think that 4 is too young to tell. I agree that you don't need to leave it to 7 to do something. I think at 4 you have to be very careful that you don't turn reading into a chore which the child isn't interested in.

By about the middle of Yr1 I wasn't happy with DS1's reading progress so did start to do something (I did Toe by Toe). He is now reading at reasonable level for his age (Yr4).

In reception it was very difficult to work out whether there was an issue with his reading or he was just settling in or he was just tired or he was just immature etc. etc.

I think at 4 they don't really have much spare energy other than to do a very small amount of work outside school and too much pressure trying to solve a problem that might not be a problem at all could cause them to switch off completely.