Is it hard being minority posh kid at inner London school?

[saucypan]

I'm not someone who wants my kids to go to a middle class socially cleansed school in London - I want them to have a proper mix that represents the community they live in. But what do the wise women of MN have to say about schools - good, vibrant, successful, but in very deprived areas. Is it hard to be the only white middle class kid in the class - or one of very few?

I went to a rough school in a very deprived area. There were a few middle class kids and certainly no issues with bullying, if anything people thought they were "cool" because they had big houses and nice holidays.

The middle class kids joined in with the underage drinking and underage sex that was commonplace but went on to achieve good grades in contrast to the rest of the intake. They weren't branded swots because the lessons didn't involve any input from pupils so you never knew if someone was clever or struggling.

Thanks Merry and Elibean - I needed that pep up - I feel a bit weighed down at the mo! I am trying to talk to people round there to get stronger sense. Sounds like everyone v pleased with the school. The trouble is leaving a school I'm very pleased with - feels high risk and change is always challenging anyway!

ps here's the crux. I prefer their current school, partly I 'm sure cos I know it so well. So the q is how much will it affect their lives, outcomes, future happiness etc if we move them. It's the great unknown, I know...

Op, as far as I can see you'r e asking this question because you want to move - the question is will the local school be too rough for your dcs?

Firstly, if you moved could you keep your dcs at their current school or is that impossible?

Second - have you looked at the school and did you like it? If you did, then go for it - if you didn't then fine. You don't have to like somewhere out of political correctness, just as you don't have to like a school that's 100-per-cent colonised by Boden-wearers.

My dcs are in aminority at their school, it's fine. There are dozens of different nationalities and most parents seem to value education, which to me is the vital factor in making a school work. School events are well attended by parents of every background. That's the kind of thing to look for, maybe by asking to attend a couple of assemblies. If you like the vibe, then you and your dcs will be fine.

Maybe you are considering our school, Saucypan!!! Are you thinking of East London?

Do you HAVE to move? What about secondaries? It's not worth moving again. Are there decent secondaries or is this what you were talking about (don't know if it was secondary or not you were talking about.) Ime moving schools frequently was quite painful but once would probably have been ok. I think the priority is to be in a primary which moves into seconday with people from your school. Makes a massive difference to settling. And definitely NOT moving during secondary if at all poss.

OP - I'd go for it (depending on the school of course). I was in a similar position at primary (not in London) as I went to school on the local (very poor) estate. I loved it and did fine (as did many in the class - but secondary let most of them down as they were presumed to be underachievers).

I now send my DC to a very mixed school (also not in London), and I can think of only two or three middle class families apart from us. Despite initial wobbles (none to do with this), it is turning out really well and DC have a mix of friends from the local area.

thnx all. wd be near good secondary. wd be lovely home. one of my worries tbh is that they'll end up speaking it that kind of black London accent that lots of kids speak these days. Is that silly?

We cd stay nearer current school but it would really push us financially.

OP - so you don't want them to go to a "middle class socially cleansed school" but neither do you want them to pick up an accent from their school in a "very deprived area" Hard call! If not impossible.

Infants fine, juniors perhaps less fine, secondary can be a real problem IME.

Interestingly in a lot of Greater London primaries with a "posh" catchment the class issue is totally different to how it was in the 70s, in some cases the traditional WC professions (electricians, plumbers, taxi drivers etc) now have much bigger houses (and more spare cash!) than the so-called professionals. So a school may look very white and middle class with lots of Mercs in the street at pick-up time but the accents are not remotely posh. So don't base your decision for the new school on appearances, you still don't know what you're going to get...and generally what you do get is lovely as long as the people are friendly and teaching is good. I understand your worries totally but think you have to go with your instinct, it sounds like you'll be fine with the new school.

Is it very far away from your current school?

dido, is it impossible? I didn't pick up the predominant accent at my school. I think that made it harder for me at school but better for me as an adult if I'm honest. I spose my question is can you have it both ways, where dcs can feel comfortable with their family identity AND coexist very happily in a community in which they are the minority. Sounds like many of you have good experiences of this at primary level.

I knew one much posher kid than me at school who became really hardcore mockney - and quite a bully of the few other mc kids - this was her survival I guess. I thought it was sad because she clearly didn't feel comfortable about her own identity or with her own family. I'm sure there must have been other issues at home though for her to reject family identity so much.

Of course dcs are more than products of their family and as they grow they grow away from their family and more into the community of their peers - and that's something I'll have to come to terms with whatever!

Anyway, will try and relax and find gut instinct. Thanks for v interesting thread.

It is actually quite a good (if irritating for loved ones!) skill to adapt your accent or the way you speak a bit depending on who you talk to. I know that my DS is well-spoken enough for me at home that I don't correct him but he doesn't sound "posh" imho, just a bit less Saarf London than some children in his class.

Disclaimer: I don't mind the local accent as such, it's actually the "aint", "what" instead of "that", "was you" instead of "were you" etc. that bothers me so he knows not to say those things to me, he can at school though if it helps him fit in with his mates . I sound dreadfully snobby here but I'm not meaning to, just trying to say that I think DCs can adapt to anything in the playground and still speak at home to us in the way we communicate with each other. I suppose a French speaking child will talk in a local accent at school and then in French with mum at home so the same sort of thing...

I know a brother and sister, who go to the same (mixed) school. The brother (older) has a much more Londin accint, but he's sis speaks really quite poshly (despite both parents having Irish accents). She is super ambitious and super confident and I think she just realises it will do her favours, and naturally gravitates towards the posh kids. Just to say, it does depend.

I'm very good at adapting my accent. I can sound like a right cockney if I'm speaking to one, or speak quite properly (and even with a different vocabulary, not just accent) in different company. I sometimes think it must be strange for people who know me in one context to see me in another!

LOL, my father used to threaten my younger sisters with elocution lessons - and that was with them both in the private sector!

I totally understand your worry - my DD who isn't even 3 is coming home from nursery talking sarf London. I just correct her pronunciation in the way I would correct new words she was trying to say.

If you do a lot of reading aloud together at home, family meals where people talk etc then it's reasonably easy to correct things.

Altering accent is also a bit of a survival tactic - I used to do it all the time until I realised that a) I wasn't very good at it and b) I still sounded posh! But for those who can be 'bilingual' it's a good strategy!

Btw, I think you have less to worry about in an urban, very ethnically and socially mixed school than you would in a 99.9% white British school where 'class' was the defining factor. Children can be very unpleasant and like animals will go for the one who is 'different'.

In very multicultural schools there are so many factors that make someone 'different'. Many ethnic minority groups also hugely value education and have an ethos of hard work.

Good luck!

Re fitting in-Choose your battles.

There were a few non negotiables. I didn't comporomise on a few things; my DCs went to bed earlier than most of the other children in their class and there was TV all their peers seemed to watch (Eastenders in reception ) but I chose to not sweat the small stuff, ie. clothes (although they had posh stuff for GPs Aruns and kilts ) accents and earpiercing.

Agree with the poster upthread who said that children don't really notice differences until about 8.

I went to a school in the middle of a large council estate as I didn't get a place in the village school. It was quite rough but I didn't have any problems other than my friends living all close together on the council estate and my house being further away. The one thing I did notice was how few of my friends passed what was then the 12+ to get into grammar.

Saucy, both my dds are perfectly capable of switching between Sarf London and (not sure what to call it!) not-Sarf-London accents - it really is like being bilingual. They won't forget what they hear at home

How old are they? How much longer in primary? If the secondary where you are moving to is really good, I wouldn't worry too much about primary - as long as the kids are happy, safe, and enjoying learning. If they learn how to learn, and how to love learning, they will take that with them to where it matters.

Change is scary, eh?

Thank you Elibean! Yes, change is shit scary!!! I'm currently veering towards taking the plunge...

OP. I'm sure it's possible to keep an RP accent IF (and it's a big if) the kids want to. Many try to 'fit in' with the majority. I suppose it depends on whether they are brave/confident enough to stand out and not mind. And who the cool kids are.

What's so fantastic about an RP accent?

Unless you work at Sotheby's it's a not a prerequisite for any job, and can put a lot of peoples' backs up. I have one and modify it when I remember unless I'm trying to intimidate someone.

well like lots of you i can go from right posh to right common depending where I am! rp accent not be all and end all but it's what my kids will get from me and i'd just kind of like us to be the same. For same reason i would never move to america! though wouldn't have minded them having geordie or scottish accents which i love but won't move there just for that

Lambethlil - nothing fantastic about an RP accent, but the OP wants her DC to have one.

Sorry, didn't mean to be confrontational, its just that I realised quite recently that there are very very few advantages to having one!

In my experience most Asian kids do not need ESL support and have parents who are very middle class.

My DS is in a nice little village primary on the edge of a bigger city. All white, about 90% skilled working class (an all-knowing neighbour once said to me that no-one in X has a degree ) many have grown up there, so there is quite a bit of cliquiness. But the fact that DS is bi-lingual/cultural (only German) is quite an oddity. Sometimes I wonder whether we should have stayed closer to town where there is more of a cultural mix.

"I had a miserable time at one state school (rural) that I attended. I had a double-barrelled surname and a cut-glass accent. I was branded as rich, posh and snobby and both ostracised and picked on."

I got picked on for having a posh accent as well. We weren't rich or snobby, but I was brought up to speak nicely.