What age do you think children should start primary school?

[sarahht]

What age do you think children should start primary school?
Is four too young for children to start school?
Are children ready to start school at such a young age?

I have always felt that whether your child is in YR or Y1 should be based more on their "readiness" rather than their age. All children should have a term in YR so they can start to learn the social type skills required at school, then if children are ready to start a more formal type of learning, although still having plenty of time to be able to learn through play, they go into Y1.
Other children who are not ready for this type of learning stay in YR and carry on learning through play, and then when ready move into Y1.

I like the concept of Reception. That would make a very good nursery style education for the 4-6 year olds, however I don't think they should be taught to read and write, only those who are interested to do so.

It would let those who want to progress to reading and writing (and I don't really think its that many) and the rest could learn whatever else there is to learn, e.g expand language skills and vocab, social skills, numbers, physical ...

I'd disagree gabid, I think 4-6 is the ideal age for most children to learn the basics of reading and writing, in and among all the play and other activities.

I must say that I was very surprised when I found how young a child could potentially be when starting school in the UK. My English niece is an August child and started school a whole year and a half earlier than my daughter, who is six weeks older than her. She'd only just turned 4!!!

Here in Australia, the whole emphasis is when/when not to 'hold the child back'. So, it is very much up to the parent and how they feel about the child's readiness. There is a trend, in some parts of Sydney anyway, to hold a child back until they are 5/6, especially boys. I've had loads of 'what are you going to do?' conversations about when to send children to school.

There is a cut off, you can't keep them out of school forever.

My first was 5 1/2 when she started, my 2nd will be 4, nearly 5. Totally different kids.

I think 4 is too young for most children. Ideally it would be 5, maybe pushing it to 6. DD1 is 4 in June and will start school in September. She's a tough cookie and I'm sure she'll be excellent but she just seems so tiny to go.

There is the other side of the argument to look at as well.

In dd's class there is a girl who is almost a year older than the other children.
Dd turned 6 the month after she started and a month after that,this girl turned 7. The difference, especially as the years pass, is notable.This child is taller, more physically developed, more mature in every sense. Dd still talks about bunny rabbits whilst this girl is quite clearly almost at puberty. Frankly she looks, and acts, totally out of place in the class. Her mother, who is a good friend of mine,now regrets having kept her back- she did so because of the heavy workload children get here from the minute they start.

Another friend is now having the same dilemma about her son, and the first friend is advising her too send him, in order not to have him feeling out of place with his classmates.

FilterCoffee - we will have to disagree then. The concept of the sooner you start the more they learn just isn't true.

Many 4 and 5 year olds make very little progress in reading and writing, and just seem to go through the motions when they could be learning something they are interested in and enjoy.

I have seen many, especially boys (including my DS), and some from very academic backgrounds for whom it really clicked at age 6-7, when they started to make good progress with reading, writing and maths, and started to enjoy it. Whereas before that age most seemed fine but not more.

I feel making 4 and 5 year olds read when they not choose to its all a bit of a waste. They are like little sponges at that age and could be learning so much - and sitting them down to read and write if they don't want to is a waste of their time. They could be developing their language and vocabulary, story telling, role play, word/language games, music .... and at 6 they will be ready and learn to read quickly and confidently.

At 4 most are still busy learning to talk! Telling you about what they have done using appropriate grammar ...

Based on experience with DSD, I think 4-4.5 is way too early. I'm from the US and was more than ready even with a summer birthday, but kindergarten there starts at age 5-6. I didn't realize what a difference there was until DSD started school.

Looking back, DSD was just confused during P1 and was not ready - not emotionally, especially not academically. At 4.5, she was still being dressed in the morning, couldn't/wouldn't zip up her own jacket, wasn't putting on her own shoes, wasn't wiping her bum properly, and wanted the adults to do every little thing for her (and several happy to do so, thus holding her back). She wasn't ready to read or do much with sums besides "2+2" either - she stayed on the same book band/ORT stage the entire school year. Constantly moaning that she wanted to go back to nursery and liked it better there.

Making much more academic progress now, though, so we're hoping that the "she'll just fly" wisdom is indeed correct. And socially, she is one of the most popular girls in class. Also one of the tallest and most athletic. So, she's right where she's meant to be in that sense.

It would be easier on DH and I if she was quick with her reading and sums - it is hard to fit in that much at-home learning support between picking her up from the childminder at 5:30/6:00 pm, feeding her tea and putting her to bed. But maybe if she was quick, she would learn to coast through school like I did, and really freak out when some of the material becomes finally, actually challenging.

" They could be developing their language and vocabulary, story telling, role play, word/language games, music ."

Thats what they are doing in reception

"Many 4 and 5 year olds make very little progress in reading and writing"

And there are also many who do. For those who don't, it's not necessarily due to their age. For some who are progressing more slowly, that's simply the stage and pace which suits them, yes. But for others it could be down to large class sizes/lack of individual help, poor teaching methods in some cases, or a poor nursery experience which hasn't prepared them for school.

bruffin - yes, that's why I like the idea of Reception, except the forced reading and writing.

FilterCoffee* - I do think on the whole learning to read is a very long process for most in the UK. By the end of Y2 the average reader is on Purple level books which doesn't quite yet enable them to pick up any book and read it for themselves. That's 3 years of learning to read and still they are not independent. I think that is a long time. Elsewhere in Europe that is achieved a lot faster. I know, many languages are phonic, but they also start learning English in Y1 (age 6-7) and they don't seen to have much trouble reading and writing it.

Sometimes the parents (thinking of myself here) don't know how best to prepare kids for school, either. It would have been nice if our local school was firmer and clearer about what makes a kid ready for primary - especially since DSD is a Feb birthday and could have been deferred.

E.g. there is a pamphlet in her school's front office with a list of capabilities that is supposed to help parents know if the kiddo is ready. Besides "dressing self" and "recognizes name in written form", there were traits like "knows own address". DSD did not know her own address when she started school. She still doesn't remember her own phone number. When did we see that list for the first time? Waiting for a parent-teacher meeting to begin, because we were worried she was making up P1 material during P2. But our local school also doesn't believe in simple things like fixing the stinking school website. (Grumble, grumble...)

phonetic

Not at just four years old as my son has had to (August born) Far too young! I think after their fifth birthday.

It would be nice if there was some sort of school readiness assessment, done by the pre-school or nursery, who could then discuss that with the parents and decide together whether a child is ready or would benefit from being deferred.

and the school maybe

"It would be nice if there was some sort of school readiness assessment"

Yes I'd agree with this :) A "one size fits all" approach isn't necessarily helpful.

I think it's the primary school that needs to do the readiness assessment, because they will be the ones working with the children and executing the curriculum. DSD's nursery told my DH that she was ready for P1, based on the fact that she could recognize and sometimes write her first name. However, at the time, she didn't recognize and couldn't write her last name (an easy, phonetically correct one to boot!). And there were several other "primary ready" traits that she just wasn't capable of. Would have been nice to get some guidance on that, rather than the constant on/off worry that she is behind her peers and always will be.

The deputy head told us at the last meeting that had DSD attended the school's own nursery, they might have been able to coordinate with her teachers and better determine if she needed a deferral or extra guidance at home. But she attended a private one down the road that also offered day care, so no coordination between teachers. C'est la vie. :-/

I thought an assessment would be more helpful done by pre-school/nursery and parents in the first instance and then the school because pre-school and YR both follow the Foundation Curriculum, and the pre-school know the child and can therefore judge it better than the school can. I don't think a tick box exercise would be especially helpful, it should be a more qualitative approach.

But that is all wishful thinking as in the UK children are not usually deferred and the poor teachers are meant to cater for all.

There are pros and cons to deferring, though. In many ways it's not ideal for children to be educated with others of a different age, as although the academic level might match, the social and emotional development may be so different. For this reason, perhaps classes of children of the same age is the best way overall, but with "setting" for some subjects like maths/English so that children are working with others of a similar ability level.

(and by that I mean the "setting" could include different ages)

There are mixed year groups in many schools, which doesn't seem too much of an issue.

My DS (young and immature Y2) has friends amongst the Y1s and Y2s, however he would have been much better off being deferred so that he would be in Y1 now, socially, emotionally and academically.

What about the children who are academically ahead but socially behind, or vice versa? On average they'd be in the "correct" year but may be better off with other age groups for certain subjects only. Just moving up or down a year is too generalised.

gabid as someone who has spent a huge part of their life working with 4 & 5 year olds I can't think of a single child who doesn't make incredible progress because that is what nature equips the human young to do at that stage. In the first 6 years the brain is developing rapidly.