What age do you think children should start primary school?

[sarahht]

What age do you think children should start primary school?
Is four too young for children to start school?
Are children ready to start school at such a young age?

Portofina the legal ratio for 3-4 year olds in England is 1-13 if the adult holds QTS or EYFP status if not the ratio is 1-8 That is the law!

I'm in Greece now and they start at 6. They have nursery from 4. I think it works quite well here. I think 4 is far too young to start full time school.

I think some people have a false idea of what starting school in the UK actually means. Yes they attend full time 9-3 (many will have attended day nurseries 8-6) but it is exactly the same curriculum - lots of play, lots of freedom, lots of choice

I studied for my MA with a Greek teacher who had never been in an English EY class and she said it was much gentler than her Greek nursery had been. MN Parents who have children in schools in other European countries have said the same.

Mrz, although I admit that I do not like the long hours of Reception, I agree that they're very play-based. What I don't understand, is why this changes so suddenly when the children hit Y1?

I had a debate conversation with a group of parents (Reception) this week, who thought that our children should be starting to do more formal learning now so that it's not so much of a shock when they get to Y1
My dd3 will be just turned 5 when she goes into Y1, she's not ready at all for formal learning. Why can't it be delayed throughout the infants, is there a reason that Reception is play-based and yet Key Stage 1 is not?

As I've already said, I'm a parent and I have no training whatsoever in Early Years, so can you please tell me, what is the thinking behind formal learning starting in Key Stage 1?

I think 4-5 is fine. Children often absorb a lot at this age and are ready to socialise and have a structured day, so I don't see an advantage in leaving it later. Many children will thrive on learning and discovering new things, and some could be bored and frustrated if this wasn't offered until a few years later. They'll probably have already spent a good deal of time playing with sand/water/mud/dough/finger painting etc. at home or nursery, so I think it's a good idea to move onto more formal (but still enjoyable) learning. In fact I think it's a shame that early learning is to be frowned upon and a taboo subject in some people's view.

Plonker - most Y1 classes very gradually move from play based to more formal learning. Often whole of first term is still done like reception......

Ours doesn't Indigo

It's very formal

We hjave friends in germany whose DS was just a few days younger than DD. He did not start until 7 whereas DD had been at school for 2 years already. However school was a huge shock to him, as they don't have the gradual changeover from play to formal school my DD had.

Definitely 7! My ds 5 (July) tells me that he doesnt enjoy school, its boring and its too long. Its a shame our kids have to fit into the system. At 5 it should still be half days and days full of play, discovery and excitment! During EYFS they are encouraged to play and choose but preparing for yr1 my son was told, 'its no more play now, lots of hard work and golden time on a Friday!' Scared the life out of him. By 7 they have greater confidence and have more of a chance of competing with their peers!

I think it's ok at the moment, as long as the EY carry on their child-centred curriculum.

I do think that the EY curriculum should be carried on until at least half way through Y1 and that KS1 assessments should take place in Y3. (Y2 should be a really super fun year, without any pressures of writing like a 9 year old.)

Those who think school shouldn't start until a later age - at what age do you think children are ready for nursery? If you delay school then for most children of working parents, this will simply mean they are still in nursery until they are 7.

Nurseries follow the Early Years Curriculum which is a foundation for their later development at school. Ideally there will be a smooth transition between this and school. If there isn't, that is not a problem of age, but of implementation of what should be happening.

Filter That is not what we are saying the formal school with reading/writing should start the year they turn 7, but before that we need a free, easily accessible "preschool" (maternelle?) that prepares them for reading/writing and learning, based on play but were learning is done.

Nursery is like a giant babysitting agency you can't expect a 4/5/6 year old not to be bored to death wether he is ready for school or not.

DH remembers going to the woods (sweden in the 70s) using trees to calculate angles and working out the time and direction with the help of the sun. But he didn't know how to read yet.

DD1 had 2 foreign languages (1 classes each everyday), piano and dance.
Learned to create stories, listen and analyses text, did very advances twirls and arabesques with pens, basic maths, understanding of the world.. of course she did play, paint and model too.
At 3 the "lessons" were about 15 min and they progressed until they could sit about 35/40 min around 6. Here they have 45 min lessons when they are 7 at school. But they didn't know how to read and could only write the numbers and their names.
Her hand writing is the best in her class, Y2, compare with the children who start writing at 3 in the english school. Because she can actually old a pen properly and controls it. The focus on writing text early don't teach them that.

To answer more specifically DD1 was ready for play school part time at 2.5, went full time after 3.5 (8h till 14h/ 15h at 4 yo). But it might be different for another kid.
That is the idea about formal school at 6/7, they are all ready by then, the earlier you start the more kids will not be ready wether they can sit, go to the toilet their own, concentrate or hold a pen.

But you can't dump them at 7 in formal schooling without any preparation.

Where im from the norm is to start school between your 6/7th birthday before that you're expected to teach from home basic skills like caring for yourself, very basic cooking and crafts, when we moved here my DS1 had about 2 months schooling.....the teachers at his new very British school loved us for that

By the way, he has totally caught up with no lasting damage so far! And dropping my daughter off for her first day of reception at just 4 felt mildly crimInal to me!

In Finland children at age 5 are already 6 months ahead of British children in maths despite not being at school yet and nurseries not teaching maths. I guess in Finland parents just think its normal to do more stuff with their kids. When its one on one it doesn't need to be formal to learn lots. However, If we were to copy Finland and start our children later we might therefore exacerbate the achievement gap in our country. You aren't comparing like with like.

I worked for a Finnish company for 6 years. The results of their education system really is not that great. They ate excellent at their own very narrow skill sets but anything out of the ordinary completely throws them.

have you met many British school leavers? most of them cannot even make eye contact.

Babanjo
Spent this morning at magistrate court at a schools mock trial competition. These children of 12,13 and 14 played every role in the court. They were given the case and a few weeks ago and had to produce a defence case and a prosecution case and had no idea of the competitions case.
They had to think on their feet and perform in front of a panel of magistrates. A scary prospect for many adults. Any country would have been proud of those children today.

My experiece is that in the UK, your 4 yo starts school and you spend 2 years in angst about what book band your dc is in. Where as my dd started at 6.5 and was free reading by the end of the school year.

this is why portofino

bruffin that sounds like an exceptional project! Inspiring! Who set that up? The school or the court?

I am no expert. Dd learnt some English phonic stuff, through being interested and by watching Jolly phonics on tv. As I did not know the method they would use at school I never pushed it. Here they don't do phonics. They learn letter sounds and whole word recognition. Dd managed to translate the technique to reading in English with very little prompting.

the schools mock trial competition
It is a national competition run by the citizenship foundation for state schools.

I think 4 is a right age generally, but hope summer babies and Autumn babies could be given some flexible choice,not just at the begining of the school life, but being given the option to move up or down a year accross all the year groups.Some Sen could be sorted out easily in some way .

Cool, never heard of it but sounds like an amazing idea!