What age do you think children should start primary school?

[sarahht]

What age do you think children should start primary school?
Is four too young for children to start school?
Are children ready to start school at such a young age?

DS was nowhere near interested or ready for formal learning aged 4, now at almost 7 I found he needed a kickstart from me in certain areas as he had switched off in maths in a large class of 30 - I got it wrong for DS, if I had another chance with DS I would home educated him until age 7.

DD (now almost 3 1/2) seems much more academic, loves books, picks out letters, knows we read from left to right, counts reliably to 10 and is interested in most things. If she was 2 months older she would start school in September - that makes me shudder!

DD will be almost 5 when she starts, and may read and do simple maths but its all coming from her and I am nurturing her interests - and that's the best way to learn for young children up to 6/7.

There is research stating that summer born children do worse at GCSE.

So I decided to check - the silliest boy in my Y9 bottom set was born 28 August!

About 3/4 of my Y11 top set have autumn or winter birthdays!

Lillian I dont know why I assumed that. 7 just seems really old not to be able to read at all, especially given all the books that are available to self-read at that age.

Also, with the internet etc, I thought more children would want to read earlier.

I don't have children of that age though, so I am possibly completely wrong.

I am German and the whole concept of starting with just 4 (July-baby) was a nightmare for me.

In my home country most children start nursery with 3 (you can have three years maternity leave, two years without pay) and then move to a pre-school (part of the nursery) for 1 year and then to primary school. Starting primary school in Germany is more like how children are here in Year 2 or 3. Very much structured learning, no playing anymore.

DD is enjoying Reception and she was eager to go. She actually got bored in pre-school as they didn't stimulate them enough. But it also depends on the school. Her infant school is doing a lot of learning by projects, her friend goes to a different one and the mum was astonished what DD did as theirs is more a conservative approach to learn.

As DD went to nursery full days the long school day doesn't bother her after the initial introduction period.

Also, surely many children, if exposed to books at all frequently, will just start reading by word recognition around age 4. So wouldn't parents then either let them get on with it or not want them to use word recognition and so teach them phonics themselves?

Maybe I just know some geeky toddlers. It's entirely possible

My DS was more than ready at 4 - who are these children who get 'tired' at school - my DS never does !! He was going to a fairly 'formal' nursery school from age 2 and really looked forward to going to school.

Surely it totally depends on the individual child .

RealLifeIsForWimps - I assume you have grown up in this country, where children are taught earlier. If you lived in Germany or Scandinavia you wouldn't expect a 5/6 year old to read. Its just what you are used to - they will a year later though.

ragwort I agree - DD is full of beans after school, it totally depends on the child. She is a Nov birthday so one of the oldest in her reception class, but she was more than ready when she started. They also do lots of playing as well as reading etc, I think the structure is good for them.

I don't think most children just start reading at 4. But if they read or not is not the issue here - I think most are not ready for the structure, and most boys just want to play and run, I know quite a few like that and then they end up in Y1/Y2 and are behind in this that and the other, making them feel stupid.

My DD was 4.5 when she started and it was the right age for her, physically looked ready (v tall - needed 6yr old clothes), mature and happy to sit colouring etc.

If we'd had an extra year or two at home I'd have continued in the same vein - nursery 2 or 3 days, music group, dancing classes, swimming lessons etc. She was beginning to read and no doubt would have been reading before entering school at 6 or 7.

In effect i'd have been homeschooling her - mainly through play - boardgames, reading street signs on the way to the park, workbooks as DD enjoys them etc.

The big market for preschool activities would expand - DD did Kindermusic which was an american franchise. It had a syllabus for 5/6 yr olds as US children start school later.

I live in a very deprived area - one of the trial areas for govt funded nursery at two. I know the majority of children wouldn't have the same experiences.

The gulf on starting school at 7 would be huge.

My understanding is countries which start later also have good nursery/kindergarten provision. Children don't do from home to a reception equivalent age 7. They are expected to do alot of formal work/homework when they do start.

Funny how expectations shape us. Now my sister lives in Sweden she says "Why are they teaching 4 year olds to read!!!?". I guess rather like we say "They wait until 7!!!!!!!".

I think 4 is fine for many but I think it should be easier to keep them on half days - I did this with DD (late June) and it was easy because the HT was really understanding, but I know many who've had big run ins with schools because they were reluctant to let the DCs attend part time (despite the term-after-fifth-birthday law).

I have been really worried about my 2 summer babies but DD is doing fine apparently - at parents evening yesterday her new replacement teacher said she was really surprised DD is one of the youngest. DS is August 30th though and I am worried about him - starts nursery in Sept and still barely talks (so actually his birthday is the least of our worries!)

"Presumably though, most children starting school in Scandanavia at 7 can read". No, why should they?

I was in the french system and barely knew my alphabet when I started primary at 6 (the year you turn 7), I was reading the "famous 5" v. easily by easter. DH was in sweden and didn't know anything either. DD1 has been deliberately held back by us, until this year when she started in year 2 last september. She can now read and write really well.

Primary school should start the year you turn 6, but it is very important to have a good early year foundation system wether it is at 'school' or at home.

DD1 did so well because she has been to a kindergarden from 3.5 and has learned a lot of skills, most of them necessary to learn to write and read properly.

I think the school start earlier in the UK to try to "catch" those children who will need more help and don't have the opportunity to have any early years foundation. If school is compulsory at 4 you can get to those children early enough if it is by 6 or 7 then it might be too late for them acquire the skills they lack.
So starting early might not be so bad in the grand scheme of things...

X post with dixie who puts it better than I.

I would really like better quality nursery provision, and perhaps extending the concept of "nursery" up to age 6. Maybe this will come in gradually, although it is hard to change a culture. The research is showing how vital those early years are (0-5) and perhaps for some children "catching them" in reception still means they have "lost" a couple of years that are difficult to reclaim. High quality provision at this age is now thought to affect your life chances. Surely in a civilised 21st century society we should be addressing these issues.

I'm with LeMousquetaire. My dd did the maternelle system in Belgium and never did any more than learn letters/numbers/write her name until she started Primary aged 6.5. She knew some English phonics but I never pushed it. By the end of the year she was reading fluently in French and at 8 next month, easily reads chapter books in English too.

I LOVE the maternelle/kindergarten system. It's freeness is obviously appealing - 99% of Belgian children do it even though only about 55% of women work. But they learn SO much non-academic stuff and are really READY to learn when they start Primary.

Mine too Portofino. Also I can't help thinking that they spend so much time preparing to learn to write in maternelle - learning to hold the pencil properly, practicing different loops and scrolls and straight lines of various dimensions that when they finally get down to learning to write their handwriting is a real work of art. It never fails to amaze me (or my parents or anyone else who ever receives a letter from them) that their handwriting is SO much better than mine ever was or indeed is - and everyone in the class has beautiful handwriting.

So, what do children learn in the freer kindergarten/maternelle system that gets them really READY to learn?

Well, I think I know the answer, but my question is really what should UK be doing with children in those years (age 3-6) that they are not doing at the moment? What is the child/adult ratio? and how qualified are the kindergarten teachers? How do the poorer children in Belgium get on, are they as ready for formal school when the time comes as the more affluent ones? How is the kindergarten system funded? Food for thought. sorry, shouldn't hijack thread.

As some others have said, it all depends on individual children.

DS was nowhere near ready for school when he started at 4.8.
DD will be ready at 4.1.

Tgger
Education & Schooling in Belgium
Free pre-primary school facilities are provided for children who have reached age two and a half. Where places are limited, priority is given to mothers working full-time. These pre-schools are often attached to a primary school. Attendance is not compulsory but it is very popular (it is clearly cheaper than other childcare alternatives, for example) and more than 90 percent of children in this age bracket attend. By the age of five, 99 percent of children are in school.
There are few formal lessons. As children get older there are supervised tasks and specialised lessons in subjects such as music, a second language and gym, and everything is done with an emphasis on play.

actually doesn't sound too different to EYFS

www.oecd.org/dataoecd/45/30/37864559.pdf

But is full time MaryZ. And also pre-afterschool is covered.

EYFS covers full time before and after school ...but it isn't free for most people

They have a teacher! Just the one. With additional help for breaktimes and before and after school. The teacher is a graduate in early years education. It is not childcare/nursery school in the sense we know it in the UK. I was agog at how one person could do anything with 26 3 year olds that did not involve spending the day in the toilet. But they do.

I think its starting school at 4 or 5 is o.kay but I think the emphasis should stay on play based learning while the kids are in reception and year 1, my dd is in year 1 and I am at how much is expected of her. She should definately be allowed just to play a lot more than she is.