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What is "just a bit odd" and what is something more?

75 replies

SenseofEntitlement · 29/01/2012 21:02

DD1 is 5 in March and in reception.

She wets herself maybe two or three days a week at school (sometimes twice or three times a day) and nearly every day at home. She has had the odd poo accident, but that is rare (once a month if that) She has a pull up at night. She has never really been dry to the point where I would go out without a change for her, although she had had times where she has been better than this. She also rarely tells us, although she never told us if her nappy needed changing either.

She is, however, very clever academically. I know I am her mum, so I would say that, but she is a fluent reader, she does workbooks at home for key stage one with no help, she is like a sponge for knowledge. She doesn't, however, show this at school (it is apparently a funny secret that she can read Hmm )

The school nurse is a bit concerned and has asked us to go to see her and to measure how much wee dd1 can do at once (how you do this with a wiggly four year old I have no idea) and to think if she seems to have any other issues in general.

Now, DD1 is odd. Up to now we have always just thought of her as endearingly eccentric. We say she is like a little blonde Wednesday Adams :)

What sort of things would ring alarm bells, as being beyond just being a bit odd, and into concerning?

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Tgger · 29/01/2012 21:24

Well, my boy is endearingly odd as well, rather like his Mum Grin. However, in answer to your question I would judge it on social norms. I guess she is being seen as she is having problems with toilet training which is not "normal" for her age. It's good if she can get support for that and I guess they are looking to see if anything else stands out as not quite right in her devlopement so she can get support now if she needs it for anything else too.

I can completely understand the reading thing- DS is a bit like that, he can read much better than he has let on at school, but I am about to blow his cover!!!!!

Also for example when I picked DS up from a party on Saturday he was the only 4/5 year old jumping up and down in excitement at the game they were playing. The others were excited but he was the only one actually jumping. BUT, he is in control- he didn't jump and bash his friends etc.

Do you see any other "issues" with your DD other than the toileting? Being bright is not an issue- what else is odd?

SenseofEntitlement · 29/01/2012 22:25

Well, I suppose "Wednesday Adams" is a good description.

For example, if my mum rings, DD will only sometimes talk to her (usually if I trick her by giving a "reason" - ie that she has to answer because my hands are full). When asked why she won't talk, she says "I don't have any questions."

I will say something like "do you want to know what I did when I was little? I went to France!" and she will get annoyed because I didn't give her chance to tell me that she didn't want to know.

She loves hiding, but won't come out at all until she is found - this has caused problems when we either can't find her and are worried, or don't know she is even hiding and when we do find her, she is crying because her limbs are so stiff from being still too long.

She is shy, as in she stands at the edge of groups of children until someone actually proactively includes her, but she is fine at leading a group - eg she will happily boss a room full of adults that she doesn't know around - you should have seen her at Christmas when people were laughing and messing about instead of playing a board game properly :)

Lol, she sounds really rude - she's not, she's lovely. Also, me and DH are quite odd as well, so it could be learned behaviour. Well, I'm not as bad, but DH definitely is - he finds her hilarious and says I shouldn't worry, she just obviously is too clever. We are all shy though, in a weird way, and we have a quiet house really, so her not liking loud noises could just be that.

She seems to do just fine left to her own devices, and is very well behaved (well, usually - she's no saint!) She also seems to do ok when we meet up with my friend who has a daughter the same age.

I don't even know what to look for though - she is our oldest child, so if anything we see anything DD2 does as being odd, iyswim.

With actual tasks, she seems fine. She tries to avoid dressing herself, but then all children do, and of course we dress DD2 so she is probably jealous. She can write fine (well, she just will not write on the line instead of halfway down it, and her writing isn't brilliant, but it is legible, and she is still only small)

She can add up and take away (although not very well mentally yet - she still uses her fingers quite a lot). She can count to 100 and do sums like "five lots of two" and so on.

She can talk about historical events, and that, say, Romans didn't have tv or whatever. She understands concepts like a fair test and makes logical observations about the world (eg today she was messing with some earphones and told me they must have magnets in because they were repelling each other)

She knows that people die, and that different people have different ideas about what happens to the bit that is "them" (but that mummy and daddy think they just become a memory, and some people at school think they go to heaven or become a star) but the body stops moving and breathing and all that. She says she is sad because her great great great great great grandad is dead. Hmm

So, on that side of things, I have no worries, just the kind of general oddness and the wee. But then she might just be a generally odd child who comes from a family that is quieter than others.

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Tgger · 29/01/2012 22:38

Does she have friends? Play with other kids ok? I know their friendships are rather errrr fluid at this age, but do you have any concerns there? From what you have said she sounds lovely and "normal". Has her teacher flagged up any concerns other than the toileting?

SenseofEntitlement · 29/01/2012 22:46

I don't know about friendships - she doesn't seem to have any special friends. She talks about one or two girls as her "friends" but says that they don't actually play together, but then all children say they never play with anyone. Nobody has ever actually come round to play or anything, but she isn't even 5 yet. If I'm with her at a party or something she basically stands near me, or goes to play with herself or with a huge group - I've not picked out anyone special, but then I don't think I would anyway, as they all run about so much. Her teacher says she has no particular friends.

The teacher does seem a bit concerned about toileting, but I don't do the school run. Do you think I should arrange to see the teacher, or do pickup maybe and try to grab her?

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SenseofEntitlement · 29/01/2012 22:47

And yes, she is lovely :)

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MerryMarigold · 29/01/2012 22:53

My dd is 3 and 3 months and has similar toileting issues. I am worried about her, as I am comparing her to her twin brother who has had no problems since being trained, and likewise her big brother. With my dd it is just that she gets very focussed on things and it's almost like it goes out of her head. She is better at home as I am good at picking up her cues of dancing about and know that she needs to go, even when she doesn't. But she's always coming home in different clothes, and she's only there from 9-12. I would just take it on with the nurse, do what needs to be done with the wee test...and maybe chat to the teacher about whether she has come across kids like this before or whether it is super abnormal.

Notcontent · 29/01/2012 22:56

Have you spoken to a doctor about the toileting issues? I think it is normal for children in reception to have a few accidents, because school is such a huge change, but I thing it could be a problem if it continues.

winnybella · 29/01/2012 22:56

Hmm, she seems to be very intent on 'logical' vs. what's expected-won't speak to GM because she's got nothing to ask her, she gets annoyed because you don't let her decide whether she wants or not to hear about your childhood- here she doesn't get that the question is probably rhetorical.
Actually I'm not sure all children try to avoid getting dressed by themselves.
She doesn't like loud noises-does she prefer to be in quiet environment or does she actively hate it/is scared when it's loud?
I thought she sounds a bit Aspergery, perhaps?
Did you see a doctor re: wetting?

MerryMarigold · 29/01/2012 22:56

PS. My dd sometimes does really big wees and sometimes tiny ones. If she is thinking about other things, she tends to do small ones. I think she's just in her own world a bit. She's fab at playing on her own and doing very repetitive stuff, unlike her brother who is v demanding. She also doesn't really like getting dressed whereas her bro loves to do everything himself, even the hard stuff like putting a jumper on (he is 3 too). Her older bro is more like her, and would happily have me dress him every day (I don't). He is 6 and has only recently managed to get his shoes the right way round...again, a matter of focus. His head is elsewhere too, he's very imaginative.

SenseofEntitlement · 29/01/2012 23:04

With noises, it varies. They definitely make any anxiety etc worse. Sometimes she gets notably distressed at eg the spin cycle on the washing machine, but it is very loud. We don't have the tv on much, but if we do she can't do anything else like have a conversation or remember to go to the toilet or put food in her mouth etc. She does seem to not be too bothered by the radio, and listens to audiobooks on her cd player.

We have an appointment with the school nurse about weeing, but she said she may refer us on if there does seem to be an issue beyond the realm of sticker charts (which we have tried, btw - they make a very slight difference but they become all she talks about)

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purpleroses · 29/01/2012 23:11

Most of the things you mention don't sound too odd to me, but I think it's hard to know if they're "odd" unless you see them interact with other children really - and then you also have more of a benchmark of "normallity" She's obviously bright, so presume it's her social skills/ecentric behaviour you're more concerned about? So the school are probably the best people to speak to. The nurse is probably primarily concerned with the toilet training (which may or may not be connected to any other difficulties she has) but I would speak with her class teacher too and ask her views.

winnybella · 29/01/2012 23:13

I regretted writing about Aspergers, sorry, I shouldn't have as I don't really have any qualifications whatsoever, except that I suspect DS may have some traits (and me as well). If you'll see that her social life seems to be suffering, then perhaps it would be worth looking into that in the future.

In any case I would definitely try to get referral re:weeing. Isolated incidents-totally normal, but your DD seems to have lots. Better to get to the bottom of this before she's older and will mind/other kids will tease her etc.

fuzzpig · 29/01/2012 23:15

She seems like she is overly literal - things like saying she is sad because of GGGG...F is dead, because death = sad, so the fact she never met him is irrelevant to her.

Apologies if I've got the wrong poster but I think you've mentioned your DH is also quite asperger's-like in his behaviour... Whether he has AS or not it sounds like she has got some traits from him?

SenseofEntitlement · 29/01/2012 23:27

Yep, that was me fuzzpig.

I just can't make up my mind about this. I asked DH, but he thinks she is just too clever to want to go along with silly social rules. Hmm MIL just says that she can make eye contact so she is fine. My sister says that it is quite possible that she has issues, but it is hard to tell at this age.

I had never thought of the great great great great grandfather thing like that before...I just thought of it as a generally strange thing to say.

She definitely needs help with toiletting issues, I'm at the end of my tether - I seem to have to clean up after her whenever we go out of the house.

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MerryMarigold · 29/01/2012 23:30

Also if your dh is very literal she will have picked this up and started to think the way he does...it may not even be part of the way she is made.

Grin at the silly social rules - one of them being not going around smelling of wee. I guess he does not do the washing?

MerryMarigold · 29/01/2012 23:33

I think teachers are quite well placed to judge so you could run things past her teacher. I am fairly convinced ds1 and dd have some sort of learning 'dysfunction' as they are quite different to other kids and their other brother. But so far the teachers haven't flagged it up to me, despite me giving them the opportunity. Sometimes teachers are afraid to flag things up if they think the parents are going to freak, so if you say you are open to her opinion and see what she says...

SenseofEntitlement · 29/01/2012 23:38

Oh, he does the washing, he just doesn't care :) He doesn't, however do the being out in public when she wees on a train seat or poos at a birthday party. Blush

I just thought of another thing she said recently. Yesterday we were playing outside (a complicated system of scooter races with poor little DD2 losing on her trike, although they were both being very cute) and another little girl walked up and said hello (her parents were walking their dog nearby). DD1 didn't respond (she never does) so I replied hello and asked the little girl what her name was, and then asked DD1 if she was going to tell the little girl her name.

instead, DD1 said "how old are you?"
little girl "three and a half"
DD1 "I'm four and a half. I'm older than you."

Then walked off! I tried to cover by showing DD2 to the little girl and letting them have a little chat, but I bet the parents thought I was awful!

I think I at least need to try and explain the concept of being polite. She says please and thankyou, it's the subtler things that are harder to explain.

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IndigoBell · 30/01/2012 00:15

I too think you should get her assessed for Aspergers.

Aspergers in girls can be quite hard to spot, and is frequently different to ASD in boys, but all of what you've said could be symptoms of Aspergers. (or Dyspraxia - the symptoms of them are very overlapping)

SenseofEntitlement · 30/01/2012 00:23

Well, I actually have a diagnosis of dyspraxia myself. But it says in my ed psych report (I got it as an adult because my mum wouldn't let me be assessed as a child, despite me having endless problems Hmm) that it is just a different name for certain aspects of dyslexia (that I'm not confident I have). So I might not even have dyspraxia, who knows.

So, you are saying that dyspraxia could be behind this stuff with DD? Is it hereditary?

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SenseofEntitlement · 30/01/2012 00:26

What would be the benefits of her actually getting a label of any kind? It's not like she is behind at school, and surely she would get help sorting out her toileting anyway?

I lean towards any label possible, after my experiences of school, but I know that DH hates the idea of me even going to the school nurse, as it is making a fuss when she will learn eventually.

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MarjorieAntrobus · 30/01/2012 00:47

I remember your thread about your DD hiding for too long.

It would seem to me that with your dx of dyspraxia and your DH's asperger traits coupled with your worries about your DD, you would do well to take things forward with both the school nurse and the class teacher.

IndigoBell · 30/01/2012 00:48

Dyspraxia's kind of hereditary. In that there is a far greater chance of her having it if you have it.

There are loads of benefits of getting a 'label', but for starters it allows you to google and find out more about her problems - and possible treatments and therapies.

Often kids with dyspraxia have toileting problems. Retained reflex therapy claims to fix toileting problems associated with dyspraxia.(and has done so for many MNers)

But if you don't think she has dyspraxia you're unlikely to stumble across this therapy via google.

a label helps you and school to know what to do to help her.

cory · 30/01/2012 08:50

First of all, I would have her examined physically re the wetting. My friend's ds wet all the time at this age and it turned out to be a case of faecal impaction.

Himalaya · 30/01/2012 09:31

Yes I would go see the school and ask their opinion and advice.

I have a DS (now 8) who is as you describe 'a bit odd' - you call your DD Wednesday Adams, my son gets called Brick after the aspergersy boy in The Middle.

I have hummed and hahhed about the labels question.... when he was younger being different didn't seem to bother him, so we left it. But now it is becoming more of an issue socially and making him anxious and sad, so we've bit the bullet to make an appointment with the community paediatrician. I'm not sure it would have made a difference to go earlier but I kinda wish we had.

DeWe · 30/01/2012 10:01

I would go and talk to the school.

The probalem is that some of the things you find "cute and quirky" at reception age, if she doesn't grow out of them other people may well not find her cute at age 8 or 10 and just label her rude.

The thing about the ages though imo is normal, as is comparing heights and saying "I'm taller". But I would have taken her aside afterwards and talked about it not being nice and "how would she like it..."

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