Help, crap school?

[WorriedAndNotSureIShouldBe]

I had to move house a couple of years ago due to money problems. We didn't have many choices as to where we could live so chose an area not far from where we were before, just on the cheaper side of town. Our dcs go to the local school which I was keen for them to do so that they lived near their friends. Also I don't always have access to a car so didn't want to commit to having to drive them across town. Also was concerned about how complicated it would get when I went back to work if my dcs were not at a local school etc.

It wasn't an easy decision to make. The reason it wasn't easy is that the local school doesn't have a great OFSTED. The school is graded as satisfactory.

Since my dcs have started there though I have been very happy indeed with the teachers who so far have been great and also my dcs are very happy and are making good progress (from what I can tell anyway). The down side is that a lot of the parents are not really like me, I am more educated then most of them and we have careers where they have jobs IYSWIM. Some I don't think work at all. They are also more of the tracksuit, orange skin types (sorry if I sound like a snob I just don't know how else to describe them). I am an artist so not highly paid but have individuality and am used to quite groovy modern thinking people etc. Some of the parents at the new school have got me thinking there may be a little bit of rascism/homophobia even though it is very mixed which I find strange. Not in an attacking each other way, just a more not very up to date outlook that you get from reading the Sun!

There are a few that are a bit rough but there are also a lot of parents who are really lovely and who I can relate to. I have made a few friends although sadly there isn't much inviting other kids for tea or parents getting to know each other business going on, not within my dcs classes anyway.

I feel this is a shame as where I lived before I know that a lot of the parents do class meet ups for anyone who wants to go along and nights out for the mums etc. In that area they were ambitious, achieving types. They were probably much more so then me so I didn't entirely fit in there either. They were all more wealthy then me.

So part of the problem is that I am concerned for my dcs being at this school which ofsted thinks isn't good, plus the last SATS were quite bad.

Part of the problem is that I am worried about the influence of some of the other families on my dcs as they grow older and are more independent. I worry that perhaps they won't want to bother going on to any sort of further education or training or have ambition because their friends don't and that sort of thing.

I also feel crappy because I grew up in a rough area and got out by the skin of my teeth, I was all set to bring up my children in a better area and then it all went to shit. Where we are now is somewhere between the 2. Not as bad as where I grew up by any means but not as middle class as the last place I lived.

The school has a new headmistress who is supposed to be a kick arse head so things should be turning around for the school, in theory. The school will soon be assessed again and if they get another terrible report I just don't know what to do.

Please don't flame me for being a snob!

"The down side is that a lot of the parents are not really like me, I am more educated then most of them and we have careers where they have jobs IYSWIM. Some I don't think work at all."
Oh my God! is the most polite thing I can say at this stage.

It's a 'crap school' just because you don't like the parents? You've said it yourself, you're being a snob.

Isla I am not sure exactly what is wrong with that statement. That's just how it is.

Lady No I never said that, I said it's been OFSTED assessed as Satisfactory. That's why it might be crap, I don't know whether it is or not. The not relating to the other parents is an issue though. It's not snobbery although I thought some on here might think it was. It's to do with growing up myself in a not great area and first hand experiencing the affects of it . . . kids on drugs everywhere and girls with low self esteem and nothing else to do but go off with older dodgy guys, myself included. High teenage pregnancy and crime. It's fine to say it's snobbery if you have never experienced it and the effects but if you have then you won't want that for your own children.

You do seem to have a bit of a problem with language. A school is not "crap" because it has a satisfactory OFSTED and to express shock that some parents only have "jobs" or possibly "don't work at all" - well, that would make them a Stay at Home Parent wouldn't it? How shocking!

Out of your post there's only four lines about the OFSTED report. Most of it's discussing the parents. Read it as though someone else wrote it because that's what I see. As a parent you can influence your children and show them that they can live their own lives. Just ignore the other parents.

I would wait and see how your child gets on. It is about them, not the parents.

"Since my dcs have started there though I have been very happy indeed with the teachers who so far have been great and also my dcs are very happy and are making good progress"

This is what counts.

The rest is all about you, not the school.

annh But doesn't satisfactory and also bad sats mean it's not great? I am not sure by what you mean when you say I have a problem with language. When I say "don't have jobs" I am not talking about stay at home parents! Of course not that would be ridiculous! I am one myself! I am talking about the parents who chose not to work, ever, both of them (and no they don't have disabilities ). As for those who "only have jobs", I am concerned about the lack of ambition. I don't give a shit what jobs other people do, but I am concerned about the attitude to work that comes with it. It would be nice if my dcs could look at their friends parents as they grow up and think "oh he/she does xxxx for a job, that sounds brilliant, maybe I could do that" rather than "oh he/she does xxxx, hates it, and keeps telling me it's not worth going to college or that study is a waste of time" etc.

Lady I haven't put more about he school because I don't want to give too much away. The school does have some plus point but they make me too identifiable. It also has some negative points which is the parents and the stats which I have both mentioned.

coppertop That's what I keep telling myself, that they are happy and doing well so not to worry about it. I just don't want them to have the same start I did. It's also hard to tell myself they are doing well when so many people in the area don't want to send their kids there, that I have friends who think I am crazy for doing so, and that OFSTED are coming into the school again so soon as they were concerned last time, and that the SATS were apparently one of the worst in the whole area!

Arse That's what we are doing. Would you consider moving your dcs if it were you, if they weren't doing so great? Or would you leave them there and hope for the best? Possibly get a tutor later on?

LadySybilDeChocolate As a parent you can influence your children and show them that they can live their own lives.

I worry that the other influences will smash ours to bits. My dcs are still only young so I'm not sure exactly how influenced they will still be by us verses their mates when they are say 9 or 10.

The school my dcs attend was, until recently, rated as satisfactory by ofsted. Also has crap sats results.

The ofsted rating means nothing to me. Because the school is still fundamentally the same now as it was at the end of last term when it was rated good. Personally I think it's actually a really good school. Great staff. Dcs happy and learning.

The sats results reflect the intake which is very mixed. High number of SEN. The school does it's absolute best, but there are also a number of parents who bring the children in late every day or enable very poor attendance.

I tnk you should concentrate on the very positive statement you made
Re the teachers and ignore the stats to a certain extent. Look at whether your children are making progress each term, and focus on their individual learning rather than on the performance of the school as a whole.

Personally, I think sats are a blunt instrument - the reliance upon them to rate a school is unfair, s is attendance - the school does what it can, but it is very hard to make parents bring their children in when they just aren't that bothered. Ofsted relies far too much on bald statistics, like attendance and sats.

Clunky writing there. School now good. Last term was satisfactory. So on paper has suddenly become a better school. Which is daft. Is an excellent school regardless of sats and ofsted.

Of course if my DCs were miserable or doing very badly then I would be making plans to move. But it sounds like they are doing fine for now, and IMO experience counts for a lot more than OFSTEd reports and certainly more than other DCs' parents :)

I understand the fear of other influences, it is really hard to 'let go', but I think you are over thinking it and imagining the worst. You are your children's biggest influence.

The most important thing is how you as a parent bring up your children. My dd goes to a very similar school to your dcs. Recently we got offered our first choice school (a very middle class school). We decided to keep dd in the "rough" school because she is happy there and that's what matters. It doesn't matter what the other families do or don't do. As long as you have ambition and strong family values, then your dcs will copy you.

My friends' children go to "posh" schools and yes the mums meet up all the time for coffee/dinner/drinks. That would never happen in my dds school and yes I guess I am a bit envious at times but it's not about me, it's about my dd, she is really happy and making great progress.

I work with "rough" children and I find that most of them are very ambitious now days. They all want the best car/clothes/holidays/etc and they know that they need an education and a career to achieve all those things. "Rough" people are not stupid and they don't all do drugs either.

pooka Thank you that's a really helpful post.

Sofiamum My friends' children go to "posh" schools and yes the mums meet up all the time for coffee/dinner/drinks. - Why is that? I don't understand why at my dcs "rough" school the parents don't want to do that. As for the drugs, I realise that they don't all do it but I think I was shocked when my ds was invited for tea at his first new friends house. When we got there I found out that his mum used to have a drug problem and then her brother turned up off his face on something or other kicking over furniture and handing out huge packets of sweets (bizaarly) to all the kids and ranting. Then the mum told me that the kids dad is a druggie and so isn't always around. I thought shit how am I going to manage this situation if they are still friends in a few years when my ds is a bit more independent!

Arse Thanks!

As long as your child is happy and making progress, what is the problem?

I am from a (lower) middle class background. I'm educated to A level, but not Uni. I live in my own house on a "council" estate and work at a school very much like you describe. My children have all made very good progress from this and the secondary school ,that has the same children as the primary did. Some will got to Uni, some to the very good nearby college...others won't bother.

I did not make huge amounts of friends ,(and have never been to a coffee morning in my life!) when we moved here (for economic reasons), until I retrained as a TA.

To be honest, the people you describe probably have more money coming in than my family do. Does that make me 'rough'? I don't have a chavvy orange tan ,though.

It's fine to say what's the problem, but we all know what the OP is talking about and it must be a problem that bothers a lot of people or we wouldn't have parents scrimping to live in 'good' catchments or going private to avoid the kind of school she describes. The fears she has may be worst case scenarios but they are real fears and very hard to lay to rest.

OP, I guess there must be no alternative options or else you'd have jumped on them? In which case, I would take heart from the appointment of the new head, get involved and do everything you can as a parent to give your kids the best start at their current school, meanwhile hopefully getting your finances back on track in time for secondary which will be a much stronger influence.

I'm sorry but i truly think "groovy modern people" as you put it accept cultural diveristy without thinking it is a disease their children might catch.

Ofsted ratings merely indicate how good the school is at playing the ofsted game, they tell you very little about how good or kind or innovtaive and interesting the teachers are on an every day basis.

If you're children are happy there and making good progress i'm not sure why you're not happy other than you're ashamed to be seen outside those school gates with those families

What do you see as the difference between a job and a career?

Rather than moaning about the school perhaps you could get involved. Most schools with the sort of profile you described really value input and support from educated parents. Perhaps you could help with the PTA, become a school governor, volunteer to listen to children read, help with school trips etc.

But school is a social thing too kmd, and we all want our kids to be going around for playdates with their mates after school without drug-influenced scenarios as described, don't we? Am not saying you're wrong about the oftsed thing etc, I totally agree, but that doesn't mean some of her concerns aren't legitimate. I think she's been honest and wants reassurance not misconstruing.

'What do you see as the difference between a job and a career?'

my mum had a career (teaching), my dad had jobs (in factories and shops). we all know what it means. yes there's a snob factor here which is acknowledged, but let's not pretend none of this exists or makes any difference. you only have to see the backgrounds of people in power to see that it really does. sadly.

anyway, agree that being as hands on as poss is the only way. good luck OP.

If you don't think he is benefitting from the environment move him. You don't need to justify your reasoning.

I think the social issue gets to me because that was something I really wanted for my children. Growing up I couldn't have friends over and my family never socialised and it really affected me with shyness etc. So when I had my own children I decided that I wasn't going to let that happen so made a lot of friends in the area. We all used to meet up and the kids went to each others houses. Now where I live it doesn't look like that will happen so much and I feel like I've let my dcs down. We still meet up with other friends but just none from my dcs classes and/or school, perhaps it doesn't matter that the kids they see outside of school are not from their class? Maybe I am overthinking that issue. I probably am a bit over the top about that, things just aren't how I hoped they would be, I wanted a full life for my dcs with lots of socialising and them seeing their parents doing the same. I think that getting on with the other parents and seeing eye to eye on certain issues really helps with all this.

jamdonut I don't really "get" the whole middle class or lower middle class thing. I have no idea what class I am considering I come from a working class (I get that bit) family yet have been to university and now own a house (well have a mortgage). No idea.

pinkdelight It's fine to say what's the problem, but we all know what the OP is talking about and it must be a problem that bothers a lot of people or we wouldn't have parents scrimping to live in 'good' catchments or going private to avoid the kind of school she describes. The fears she has may be worst case scenarios but they are real fears and very hard to lay to rest. --- Exactly. I see post on post on MN asking whether to chose a nice house or a good school and the replies are "good school!" every time!

pinkdelight But school is a social thing too kmd, and we all want our kids to be going around for playdates with their mates after school without drug-influenced scenarios as described, don't we? Am not saying you're wrong about the oftsed thing etc, I totally agree, but that doesn't mean some of her concerns aren't legitimate. I think she's been honest and wants reassurance not misconstruing. --- Thank you so much for "getting it".