Help, Teacher is treating my DD unfairly

[LostinSuburbia]

My DD is in Reception class. On her first day at school the teacher shouted at her which shocked my DD. Also on our children's first day at school the teacher did not welcome or greet the new parents which left many of us feeling troubled. Most parents of the class find the teacher cold and stern and some have described her as a battle axe. I wanted to give the teacher the benefit of the doubt. One parent who is a primary school teacher of 8 years is also deeply concerned about the attitude of this teacher.

One month in at pick up time DD came out distressed and said to the Mum next to me that her DD had not been nice to her. I immediately intervened and told DD to stop complaining to her friend's Mum but was interrupted by the teacher who proceeded to yell at my DD infront of all the parents and classmates "Stop being a such a tattle tale young Madam and you are no angel either". The teacher is now regularly shouting at DD and has continues to call her a tattle tail infront of others and has also started calling her a fibber infront of others. At the parent/teacher meeting the teacher seemed concerned about a friendship that DD has with another apparently more popular girl stating that DD is too focused on her. This suprised us as we feel that socially DD is blossoming and has made lots of friends and had playdates with half the class.

On another occassion DD finnished the day and came out with a furious look on her face. The teacher said to DD goodbye and DD shot back a furious glare at the teacher which I have never seen her do to anyone. A few weeks later DD broke down at home saying that her teacher does not want her in the class and that the teacher REALLY does not like her. No parent wants to hear that their child feels unwelcome in class by their teacher.

She had been saying every week that she went to the teacher for help because someone was mean to her or that she hurt herself, one time she had a large splinter in her hand or to get help for her friends and the response was always dissmissive which has shocked my DD. At her previous nursery she always got support on most of these occassions.

This week at collection time I was called in by the teacher with an especially stern look and taken up to the Head teacher's office without any forewarning. Both Head and class teacher sat there and proceeded to explain that they are concerned with my daughter's speech and where she is getting certain ideas from and that they are concerned that she is having a negative influence on one of her friends. Then they explained that her friend was at home and when her Mum was in another room she went into her purse and stole money and brought it into school. When this girl was caught out, the teacher found money in the classroom, she blamed my DD for telling her to do it. Then my DD was questioned by this teacher and all she said was that it was a joke. DD is 5 and at that age they are not that articulate. Because my daughter did not deny it, the teacher believed the other girl and judged that DD was being a bad influence.

I made the point that DD could have asked her friend to bring coins but that does not mean asking her to steal or to go behind her Mum's back. I also stated that no one overheard their conversation so there is realy no proof. At this point I had not had the chance to speak to DD myself. I pointed out to both teachers that it appears that they are not giving my DD the benefit of the doubt and that they have made their minds up about her actions based on the accusations of a girl who clearly has done wrong and is trying to deflect blame on my DD. I asked her class teacher whether DD is generaly disobedient in class or is disruptive and she answered "no". I asked whether she has ever experienced DD taking things that are not hers in class and she said no.

DD is a very well behaved and has never showed any sneaky behaviour or caused us or anyone trouble. She is not a bully and infact sticks up for the children who gets bullied and has at times been picked on herself. She has never taken anything at home or school without permission and all her previous teachers have described her as well behaved with good age appropriate social skills. Infact she has always had very good relations with her past teachers. Of course she is not perfect but at the same time I and her previous nursery have not had this type of experience with DD and I explained this to these teachers.

I have requested a meeting with the teachers now that I have questioned my DD. Her version is that they wanted to play a game called driedel at their future playdate. This game involves a spinning top and if it lands in a certain way you win chocolate coins. Her friend does not have chocolate coins so my DD asked her to bring coins from her piggy bank instead. DD is adamant about this and I accept this explanation because they had a playdate just before Xmas that was cancelled and beforehand I had bought driedels for them to play with and I have recently given my daughter chocolate coins.

Thank you for reading this long thread. Please can you advise me on how to tackle my concerns during this upcomming meeting with the Head Teacher who has requested the class teacher to be present. Also please note that the school is privately owned with no governing body. Thanks

Breatheslowly,

Thanks for your input. It is always important to take a breath and reflect. This whole dilemma centers on the well being of DD and I will try 200% to get the best outcome for her.
I am not at this stage worried that it is a prejudice. The other girl who accused my DD is Jewish and the teacher has taken her side. I suspect that it is more personal towards DD. Teacher probably has no idea what the driedel game is and might even think it is an early form of gambling with money. Who knowes.. ..

I do know that I am an anxious type but I do reflect that most Mums would take issue with the schools behaviour if their young were being berated unfairly and blamed for the behaviour of other children in such a manner. Some posters have advised me to seek out other schools and I can understand their point. I have not myself mentioned that I will and I feel that the situation has not as yet reached the point where I need to take such drastic action.
First nursery we moved home, second nursery was only a one year option as the next year would have meant dd being with much younger children.
Aerobraking, thank you so much for warning me about the name and thank you Mumsnet for responding so quickly on a Saturday night. I need to sign off for the night but I will be back tomorrow.

is it possible to move your DD?

my DS had a teacher in primary who absolutely destroyed him. He has disabilities and she just clearly hated him. When i tried to speak to her she slammed the desk with her fists. I kept him home for his own sanity until he was out of that class.

DD has also been completely stripped of all confidence by one teacher in secondary school, she is the youngest in her year and lacked confidence to begin with, i do not under estimate the damage this can do a child. I am in the throes of trying to work with the school to repair this now.

you really only have 3 choices, put up with it until she moves class and leaves the teacher behind, arrange a meeting with the head, or move her.

you have to tread very carefully though, and i would, if you are going to opt for a meeting, write all your concerns down, stay very calm, dont accuse anyone of anything, and go in with an open mind.

at the end of the day, you know your dd.
i would say trust your instincts, and do what is best for your DD.

Hi

I have just been reading all this thread and feel for you, I really do, it is a horrid situation.

Firstly, we have a school similar to this near us, that is owned by the head and founded by her parents, what she says goes and many people have left because she is inflexible. It is a case of if your face fits, you are OK, if not then you might as well move on. I wonder if this is the case with your school?

Anyway, I digress! It sounds to me as if there are two issues, one is the accusation of your dd, which is ridiculous at their age and the other the teachers attitude to your dd, which probably has prompted the accusation.

I would firstly write down what I want to say, If you are anything like me, when under pressure, all normal thinking goes out the window!!

I would stress that you agree that the incident shouldn't have happened etc. etc., but your dd doesn't know the value of money and maybe explain the game and how it should work, concluding that you have had words with her and as far as you are concerned that is the end of it. (my dd at 5 didn't understand the value of money, no chance!).

I would then go on to say that you have other concerns about your dd, that you would like to discuss with them. Personally, I would hope this would throw them a little, as they may probably want to raise stuff with you!!

I had a similar thing with my dd in Reception and I sort of got around it by saying that I realise my dd is chatty and can be a bit enthusiastic and she is the sort of child that you will either love in your class for the enthusiasim, or hate for the constant questions and chat and perhaps the teacher found the latter (she told me that she actually loved dd and she was a breath of fresh air, which sort of threw me a bit!!!!)

You may find they come out with a number of issues back, which you will need to listen to and hopefully be able to address, but whatever they say, it is so important to keep calm to discuss what is going on, because it unless it is all 'out in the open', you are never going to feel happy about it. I would definately mention about the teachers comments and that you felt these weren't appropriate in front of your child and certainly not the other parents and children.

I would also ask, if they are not happy with your dd's behaviour etc., what do they expect and what steps will be put in place to achieve this? or want you to do?

Finally, I agree with a few of the others, your trust in the school seems to have broken down and maybe looking for something else is an option. Possibly in September a different teacher will change things completely, but is it fair on your dd to keep her there in the time being?

If it was me, I would look for another school asap and my trump card if they were unreasonable, would be to tell them to stuff it and give them notice!

Remember, you are the customer here, they are the service provider, they need you, more than you need them and in the current climate, they need all the parents fees they can get!

Best of luck, you will probably find that you have gone over it so much, that in your mind it is a big thing (which of course it is to you as a parent), but to them it is just a small thing and will be completely different from what you are expecting!

Best of luck

Hello Lost

Is this school a single form school? If so your choices are very limited. Stay or go?

I suppose the question to ask yourselves and possibly friends with older children is whether this is how the school means to carry on with your daughter.

I'd point out to the head that your DD finds this teacher upsetting, believes that she is not suppoted/ looked after and that you are feeling very torn as a parent. You've tried not to judge teacher/ school and to give them a fair chance and you'd like them to try not to judge your DD and give her a fair chance.

However, if friends are telling you 'it's only worse in Y1, Y2, Y3, etc... then perhaps you should start to explore other options.

LostinSuburbia - thanks for replying to my questions. You sound sane and reflective to me and since you have worked successfully with two nurseries in the past it definitely sounds to be the school rather than you.

It sounds horrible. I realise I'm lucky that our local state school is so good, and I'm not trying to turn this into a state vs private thing, but surely if you are paying for all this then there is an obvious solution? It is not normal for reception teachers to shout and call children names etc!

Have you spoken to the other child's mother? Could it be that she has complained to the school about the money and that is why they have reacted so strongly?

Your daughter has told you repeatedly she feels disliked and picked on by her teacher. She is only 5. That is heartbreaking and I think I would be looking to move my child.

First I would try, being very calm with the school, explaining the misunderstanding about the coins, apologising for any contribution your child had to the problem and reassuring them that you have explained to your child about things going into school.

Reiterate that you want to be on the same side as them, supporting their teaching work to enable your dd to make good progress.

Then say you have concerns about her being called a fibber and a telltale, that you find it offensive and unhelpful.

Tell them your dd feels unhappy and ask how they can help her feel more settled at school, and whether there is any way you can assist the process.

If this does not yield a satisfactory result, I would urge you to consider moving her.

The way you describe your dd reminds me of a child I know. DD is very chatty. When her friends are in trouble she always goes to the teacher for help and this appears to annoy the teacher and the teacher seems to want them to work things out for themselves.

The child I know was v. popular with her first teacher and has been v. unpopular with subsequent teachers.

I think some children evoke strong feelings in some teachers and it could be that your dd needs a certain type of teacher (kind but firm) for her early school years.

But as you describe it, her school experience sounds very miserable and needs changing.

even if the other child's mother has spoken to the school the reasonable thing tot do is to get both sides of the story

but as the OP pointed out they considered they had both sides because the OPs daughter "confessed" (in their opinion)

yes...but they had the other child's mothers opinion and a child's to base their views on - I'd still have wanted to speak to the other mother first before coming to any conclusions had the child been in my class.

Do they have the other child's mother's opinion?

I may have missed it but as far as I can work out the other child blamed the OPs child and then the teacher spoke to the OPs child (who in their view confessed) then they spoke to the OP ...I could well be wrong

Actually I'm confused now...I presumed the other child's mother had complained to school about her child taking the money, but re-reading the OP I think you're right mrz.

That's why I asked if it was possible that the other child's mother had complained which might explain the heavy handed approach

Some posters have advised me to seek out other schools and I can understand their point. I have not myself mentioned that I will and I feel that the situation has not as yet reached the point where I need to take such drastic action.

Your little girl is in a school where she thinks the adults don't like her. Imagine going to work everyday in the knowledge your boss doesn't like you, doesn't believe you, and will pounce on you if you make a mistake.

It's sort of like that, except she is 5. If she has a problem with bullying, who will she turn to? If she has a little problem, who can she turn to?

And you are paying for this!

Reception teachers are not supposed to be like this. They are for the most part kind and sensitive to the little problems and dramas of those in their charge. Shouting 'tattle tale' at a 5 year old is not on. Maybe your child is high maintenance, a bit demanding of time and attention, who knows. Maybe she isn't a little angel. It doesn't matter. She is still entitled to due care and respect from her teachers. If she was 15 and telling friends to bring in money from home, I could understand the school taking a heavier approach, but she is 5. 5 year olds should be able to make a mistake and have it resolved in an appropriate manner.

You are unlikely to be able to change how the school responds, but you can change the school.

I would be very surprised if a primary teacher didn't know what a Dreidel is or how it is used during Hanukkah

Often attitudes like this are endemic and pervasive in a small and closed off environment with what sounds little accountability, apart from to your termly fees - am not surprised that other parents have said it gets worse. If the child is sweet and biddable they do fine, but if they have needs, have a bouncy personality or don't fit the prescribed mold then they are either quashed and squeezed to fit, or stay unhappy/get moved; all very Nurse Ratched. Working with each child as an individual, encouraging and fostering positive relationships takes effort and I would suggest that this teacher is too inflexible and at the root of it, too lazy, to enact this.

You have explained about the game very clearly imo. If asked why dd did not explain before now (i.e. the inference being you've had time to concoct your own version) I would simply state that at 5 years old dd did not understand the significance of what she was being asked, although aware from the manner of the questioning that she was in some way being told off but was both worried and lacked the maturity, as you would expect of a little girl, to give a full answer.

I would then present as factually as I could the other concerns you have: dd being called a tattle-tail in front of other parents, her unhappiness at being disliked by her teacher and take your cue from there.

Every child has to settle in to the school environment, some easily, some with more difficulty, but what is crucial is that there are adults that care for their well-being; and that important key factor is missing here.

Hi, Mrz and Cornsillk,

The teachers did mention that the other Mum questioned her D at this meeting and conclusions were made about my DD before I was called in and before I knew anything about this situation. The teachers wanted to know from me where my DD was getting her ideas and wanted to state that they do not want her being a bad influence on others.

I agree that it is highly probable that the other child's Mum has been complaining to them. I know her and have had a few playdates with them. She has already complained to them about another child and other issues. So it is plausible that they are concerned that she may leave the school.

The class room is in my opinion too small to accommodate the class size and between the cramped conditions and this teachers temperament it appears she is not coping well.

I have learnt this weekend that another family is complaining to the Head next week as well about a seperate matter concerning this teacher.

At our first parent/teacher meeting she even recorded our conversation on a dictaphone. Is this normal?

No it isn't normal.

Can't think why you are paying for this crap. If it were me, I would give notice and make it clear why!

I've certainly never been aware of a parent / teacher consultation being recorded.

I really would consider moving your DD. Do you honestly think that the local state schools would not treat her better?

I've been recorded by a parent in a meeting

Sorry, have just realised my last posted sounded a little blunt.

I realise that it is easy for myself and others to sit at our keyboards and say 'move her', but when it is happening to your child its a much more difficult decision to make. You have obviously chosen this school carefully for your child and it is the school that you placed your faith in.

However, there have been problems since the very first day at this school and they are just getting worse. These problems don't look like they will be resolved properly any time in the near future, and may never be resolved unless the next class teacher is very very different to this one. Your little girl deserves much better than this and from what you say, it doesn't look like this school can give her a better experience.

Surely it wouldn't hurt just to make some enquires about other schools for her, even if only to have options to consider.

I hope that one way or the other it all works out for you and your dd, good luck. :)

IMO it's highly unusual for a teacher to record a parent/teacher consultation. Did she ask for your permission to record you? Did she do this with all the parents?

Cornskull, She did not ask our permission. When we first went in she explained she was recording the conversation but did not ask us if that were okay. We were told not asked. I came away from the meeting troubled as she mostly spoke in negatives and did not give us much info about her progress. Just said that she was on track academically. It seemed that she had not put much preparation into the meeting. She talked for half the meeting about her general focus for the year but she had already covered this in the parents' meeting at the beginning of term.
Last school gave us 20 mins and had a whole A4 sheet full of details to discuss. Sorry I am digressing a bit.

What I have not remarked on so far is that DD classmates are a lovely bunch and the families are so nice with one exception. I have been very happy in the knowledge that she will be growing up with these children. If this meeting results in further disappointment and I am forced to consider my options I will feel so sad about taking her away from her friends. We will miss them.
Cakeismysaviour, I will start to evaluate the other options out there but just as back up for now.