AIBU - Permission for school trips

[IndigoBell]

Minor complaint alert :)

DS2 brings home a letter about a school trip to the ice rink.

He says he doesn't want to go.

I know he won't be able to skate, because I know he has gross motor skills problems and will not physically be able to do it. I also took him last year and he couldn't do it.

So I send the permission form back, saying I do not give permission, as he won't be able to do it.

School don't know he has gross motor problems, because they don't know what to look for. They haven't taken him skating, swimming, cycling, walking and seen all the problems I have. (But on the form I say 'I don't give permission because he has gross motor skill problems and won't be able to do it'.)

They haven't even realised that the reason his handwriting is so messy is because he can't sit up straight in his chair. (Which really does annoy me - they should have realised this is his problem)

They don't think he has any SEN at all. :)

So, when faced with the permission slip, why does his teacher convince him to go ice skating and tell him he should try?

Was it reasonable for his teacher to talk him into going, without talking to me about my concerns?

Now I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Nothing bad will happen if he goes ice skating, he just won't be able to do it, and an adult will have to sit off rink with him. School probably won't even believe he can't do it, they'll just think he was mucking around.

But nothing good will happen either, and he'd be better off just staying at school and doing absolutely anything else.

AIBU?

I have a good relationship with school, and am not going to fall out with them over something minor like this.

I know this temp rink doesn't have penguins or anything like that.

I also know it doesn't matter if he goes or not, so if they send home another form I'll sign it.

But I do think they should have spoken to me first, and they're making their own lives difficult.

I'm still confused..I think you need to address your concerns to the school. And tell them of his motor skill problems. They perhaps shouldn't have gone against the permission slip, again thought, you need to speak to them surely.

Though..not thought

Indigo, could you put something in writing explaining why you don't give your permission for him to skate, but stating that you are willing to give permission for him to watch the others? That's what I would do and I would also copy in the SENCO.

Personally, in your shoes, I would want something in writing that highlights how the teacher/school are failing to recognise his difficulties, as back up to the OT report.

... but then I'm a demon letter writer and like to have absolutely everything documented, so that I have a nice evidence paper trail.

I have had to go into school this week to point out that the reason ds1 is being resistant and confrontation about something they are trying to get him to do at the moment, is because the thing they want him to do is something which his OT Assessment Report specifically states they shouldn't attempt to make him do, because he is unlikely every to be able to to do it. Fortunately I had both the OT report and a couple of letters to them from me to back up my point.

He's 7 / Y3.

In the 3 times I've spoken to them I haven't mentioned concerns with gross motor skills, because I've only just realised that is his major problem.

His brother has ASD and Dyspraxia and DS has lots of 'ASD trait's', which is what I've spoken to school about. Of course ASD and Dyspraxia are often co-morbid and have lots of overlapping symptoms.

So it's taken me a while to realise that he is more dyspraxic then ASD because they're all so overlapping and I'm more experienced with ASD than dyspraxia.

So I've only just realised how bad his gross motor skills are (which is why I took him skating last year). And I don't mind that school haven't noticed.

All I mind is them not talking to me first.

Sorry moose, but I think that would be an awful thing to do to a child- what if he decided he wanted to give it a go, but didn't have permission?

The teachers will not force a child to skate if they don't want to. There's always a few children who prefer to just watch.

Agree with you about the paper trail, though.

Indigo, have you specifically spoken to school about his gross motor difficulties, or have you said that you 'have concerns'?

Apologies for the dreadful typing in my post.

x-post, ignore the last question.

You need to tell school about his gross motor difficulties- as you have said yourself, "They haven't taken him skating, swimming, cycling, walking and seen all the problems I have." You cannot expect them to notice, and it is strange that you would not speak to them about it.

I agree that they should have spoken to you about the trip, but I think you seem very concerned about his motor skills and need to speak to the school ASAP- why wait for them to come to you?

Tethers, I was assuming Indigo had already discussed with him whether or not he wanted to give it a try and he was set against it.

If he wants to go and even give it a try I would agree that there will be lots of other children who can't skate as well, probably more clinging to the sides than actually gliding along gracefully, so its probably easier to just say he can go if he wants to. Half the fun of skating is the falling over!

It seems like an odd choice for a trip for 7yr-olds. Even my reasonably well co-ordinated ds2 would find it difficult. My ds1(ASD) wouldn't have got beyond the first step on to the ice.

I wouldn't be happy with the teacher trying to persuade your ds2 to go on the trip when they knew very well that he had not been given permission to go. If they had an issue with ds2 not going then they should have spoken to you directly.

My answer would be the same even if your ds2 had happened to be an amazing skater.

I'm waiting to get him assessed by an OT so that I know I'm not crazy - because all previous talks with school have left me feeling like I'm crazy.

I didn't expect him to bring home a permission slip for ice skating in the mean time.

I've never taken 90 7 year olds skating before. I expected them to all skate and not watch from the sides.

DS1 and DD are on the SEN register and I have had a lot of talks with the SENCO about them. My worries about DS2 are absolutely trivial and minor compared to the problems DS1 and DD have, so I don't want to talk to the SENCO about him - especically when school repeatedly tell me he's fine.

I talked to the infants SENCO last year about him, and she told me all his 'ASD trait's' were a parenting problem. She thinks he just learned bad behaviour by watching his older brother.

So talking to teacher's and SENCOs ain't that simple. :(

Yes, he didn't want to go. If he had wanted to go I would have given permission.

But I didn't want to talk him into doing something at school which I wouldn't let him do in the weekend. That seems madness. If a friend offered to take him skating I'd say no.........

Indigo, if they had not invited him on the skating trip on the grounds of his gross motor skills (which they are unaware of), they would have been in breach of their equal opportunities policy, and possibly the DDA (depending on diagnoses).

I hope he has fun

On another note:

"I talked to the infants SENCO last year about him, and she told me all his 'ASD trait's' were a parenting problem. She thinks he just learned bad behaviour by watching his older brother."

That is shockingly unprofessional. SENCos vary wildly in their knowledge and skills IME, and I don't think that this reaction should dissuade you from following up the issues. In fact, I would be complaining very strongly about this.

You need to meet with the school, and you need to discuss his motor skills issues. Definitely put them in writing, as moosemama suggests.

I hate ice skating so much. Can't stand up, scared of falling over. Really loath it. I would have been really upset to go skating with school because I would have known I would make a fool of myself.

If he doesn't want to go, then I think school need to think what they will do with any who don't want to go, as I doubt he's the only one who will hate it.

I'd have thought 90 7 year olds, unless they're taking about 40 adults, will be a nightmare. Have they really thought that one through? Having seen rollerskating parties round here at that age a good number need a hand to hold onto, and some will need one to one help for most of it. Or are they planning on taking a small group on at a time and the others watching?

If they're planning on doing it in small groups then he might be happy to watch and it wouldn't be obvious he wasn't joining in, however I wouldn't be confident they wouldn't try to persuade him to ry it once he was there from what you've written.

It does seem a very odd trip choice to me.

YANBU, as has been said, you know your son and he doesn't want to go. A teacher should not have taken it up with him, but call you if she really felt he would be missing out! Bit unproffesional if you ask me.

You sound a bit strange.

I think if he doesn't want to go and you aren't happy about him going, he shouldn't go. Yes, it's wrong they tried to talk him round before speaking to you, you had signed and returned the form saying no and explaining why.

Will there be a class he can join back at school?

1. They haven't done this school trip before. I don't think it's very well thought through. I went with them on their last school trip and thought it was a disaster (spent 2 hours on the tube / walking to get there, an hour listening to someone talk, and one hour madly rushing round looking at what we'd come to see)

1. I forgot to say - but obviously the school trip costs, which was another reason why I didn't want to go.

1. I know they won't be taking all of the statemented children.

1. They were more than happy for DS1 not to go swimming.

1. After I get the OT report I will talk to school.

But I've learnt a lesson. Don't let DS hand in a form which says 'I don't give permission'.

1. You cannot be compelled to pay for this trip- voluntary contributions only.

1. The statemented children have to be invited. If they were not, the school is in breach of the DDA. Do you know that they weren't invited, or was it that their parents declined the invite?

1. You really should be talking to school to see if they will make an OT referral. I would see the private OT as well, but if the first you say to school of your concerns is with a private OT report, this will get their backs up, as you have not given them a chance to act.

I hope a private OT report doesn't get their backs up! Why would it?

They've certainly been fine with all the private reports I've had to get done on DS1 and DD.

DS1 has been through the NHS OT, and I just know it's not worth it. The report and recommendations were just not as good as the private OT DS1 uses. And I'd have to convince the GP to refer him...... (I'm not sure if school can refer, for DS1 we had to do it all through the GP)

I wouldn't be paying £400 if I thought the NHS OT would suffice! :)

I don't really want school to do anything in particular for him, besides let him have a move n sit cushion - which I brought into school today and they were fine with.

It could get their backs up, because you have not discussed your concerns with them- you are simply presenting them with a list of instructions for how they should teach your child from a professional they have never met.

I know that a school referral to an OT is usually useless, but I think the school should be making that decision. As I said, you should still get the private OT report as well, but I don't think that that should constitute the first mention of your concerns to school.

It's great that you don't want school to do anything, but they may want to do something- providing access arrangements in tests for example.

a few odd replies here I think

putting the whole business about what ds can/cant do and what school do/dont know or can/cant help with aside for one minute

surely it's fairly obvious to all that it is extremely inappropriate for a school teacher to attempt to change a childs mind about a trip after a parent has refused consent!!! probably done with the best intentions, but if a parent says no on a consent form it means no, you dont undermine the parent.

teacher could have discussed with parent, reassured parent that school can manage him and help him have fun, and taken parental permission to have a go at encouraging ds to give it a go NOT totally disregard consent slip

what next??? parent declines child school weigh in/ vaccinations/ sex ed and teacher tries to persuade child to have it out with parent and insist on doing it against parents wishes????

To be fair, cuppatea, I think most people have acknowledged that the teacher should not have done that- it's just that there seem to be lots of other issues here too.

How am I going to fit in a visit with school between now and the holidays?

Would an email to the SENCO saying my concerns and the fact that I'm getting him assessed over Christmas be enough?

They do know the private OT, btw, and they have been excellent with following her recommendations for DS1, so that I (naively) didn't expect there to be any problems.....

The SENCO is doing her best to avoid me at the moment (quite successfully :) ) I really don't want to bother her with trivial stuff.

I really have far more important concerns about DS1 and DD then this which is a trivial problem. This just doesn't seem important enough to tell her about.

I don't want school to do anything. I just want to know that I'm not crazy, and then to work with him at home on strengthening his core and shoulders and stuff like that.