not sure I get the teacher's point? parent's evening

[workshy]

had parent'e evening meeting with dd's teacher today

one of the comments on her end of year report said that she struggled to work as part of a group as she wanted to dominate, so I asked how she was doing and the response was

'on the whole she is much improved but in maths and science, if she disagrees with the group decision then she doesn't handle it very well and digs her heels in'

but if she is right and the rest of the group is wrong (which is usually the case when she does did her heels in) then why should she go with the group and be working down the wrong path?

she is in year 5 and was assessed at NC5a at the start of the year, is doing an hour a week at high school on a G&T maths program so is very confident in the subject and does get frustrated

what do I tell her as I really don't want to tell her that she needs to bend to the group even if she is 100% sure that they are wrong???

She doesn't need to accept a wrong conclusion, she needs to learn negotiation, discussion skills and an ability to explain her reasoning so that others can see the logic of her answers.
It's about working as a team rather than dismissing people as wrong without explanation.
My DD was exactly the same and learned some higher social skills late in KS3. Before that she was right but not popular with the majority because she lacked tact and diplomacy.
Now she's at uni, she's still right 95% of the time in her subject areas, but with more people skills.

She sounds like a delight to teach. She knows she's right and need others to learn!
DownbytheRiverside is correct though. This is all about people skills, and in y5, it is hardly surprising that she is not able to calmly explain her reasoning to the others in such a way that is respectful but convincing at the same time.
I wouldn't worry at all about it. If that's the worst that's being said, she's doing just fine :-)

It is group work, if she is 100% sure she is right then just saying "I'm right" isn't the point, saying "I believe this is right because of a, b c, why do you think you are right?" and listening to the other point of view is the point.

Sometimes there is more than one right answer, and if she picks one answer and sticks to it she will never get the second answer

...but she's in year 5!

"...but she's in year 5!"
What has that got to do with it. This is the type of things we start learning from a baby.

Sorry, what do I know?
I am just saying that year 5 is very early for a school to criticise a bright child (it seems) for not fully co-operating during group work.

It is a difficult issue to address and improve in a child, and one that I suspect in a large class, are generally ignored. In restropect, the OP needed to ask what the school were doing to develop and encourage such skills.

I wouldn't see it as a criticism, I'd see it as a point for development and expect the teacher to support her in developing her skills in group work.

You could teach her debating skills at home, which she could use calmly when she feels she is right and others are wrong. If she gets others to explain their reasoning, they may be more open to compromise than if she just pushes on with her idea.
She could use her leadership skills to identify the skills others in her team could bring to a task, e.g. "I know you have lively handwriting, could you write results down for us" or "you are very precise, could you please measure and cut up for me?"
People like having their strengths identified and praised, it's a good lesson to learn young.

I don't see it as a criticism either. It is a point where there is room for improvement - selling to the others in the group why she is right and they are wrong.

She needs to learn how to put her case to the others. Perhaps you could give her some ideas on how to do that, and how to word it so that the others aren't left feeling daft.

Such a huge difference between, "You are dummies, that is so wrong" and "I think that you are wrong, and this is why ..."

(not that I am saying that she actually says the former, but it may be how she is coming over to the other children)

A very sensible set of suggestions, inmysparetime
:)
Good luck, OP - but I should not worry too much

It's something that is expected from much younger children ASteepLearningCurve

one of the goals for reception children is
Understands that people have different needs, views, cultures and beliefs that need to be treated with respect

another is
Uses talk to organise, sequence and clarify thinking, ideas, feelings and events

surely if these are targets for five year old children you would expect some mastery five years later ...

*lovely handwriting, lively
Darn tiny keyboard iPod!

"I am just saying that year 5 is very early for a school to criticise a bright child (it seems) for not fully co-operating during group work"

How is it early? It is something they need to learn to do just as much, if not more, than the facts they are learning in, say, science. To have a child refusing to accept other peoples opinions is a) demoralising to other children and b) incredibly frustrating when they do it to the person teaching them.

I speak as someone with two children whose school reports made many mentions of them being stubborn and opinionated. As part of preparation for 11+ entrance exams, I have had to do English practice with DS2. Dealing with a child who does not know it all and is not all knowing but insists that he is right is incredibly frustrating.

Your DD does need to learn how to work in a group and how to accept other ideas and explain her views rather than force them on the group.

Cut her some slack, mrz!
If children were expected to have some mastery of all the goals for reception children by year 5, then we'd be a very impressive nation!
There is a difference between "understanding that people have different needs and beliefs" and being able to explain to peers at age 9 that you think the answer to a problem is different and fully explaining it (especially if the OP's DC is correct in the first place and is having to explain to pupils who aren't actually understanding what they are doing".
I teach, amongst other things, a year 7 Maths set of low ability in preparation for Common Entrance in 18 months time. They get things wrong. Often. I explain to them their mistakes and go through the correct method and reasoning behind it. Sometimes the pupils still don't "get it" and a different approach is taken. Often a child will still struggle.
Yes, "teaching" is a skill that is encouraged by the YR goals, but is not one that should be "expected" of anyone at year 5.
As I said before, the OP needs to ask the school how they are addressing the problem. Teachers have no problem being asked such questions if they have it in hand!

soupdragon it is early to criticise without them doing anything about it, or giving advice to the OP...
Yes, of course, it's a skill that develops through school - but not without encouragement and support.

Where does it say there is no encouragement and support? There is certainly none from the child's mother as she does not see it as a problem.

This is a storm in a teacup - all the teacher has said is that the child needs to work at it. That's it. The child hasn't been criticised, an area where she news to improve has been identified. It doesn't seem like the mother asked for any suggestions as to how to overcome this and simply feels that her DD should be allowed to carry on as she is.

But what if she is not right? I she still digging her heels in then?

As I said earlier, the key to it is that the school and OP need to liaise about what is being done about it - that is what I meant about no encouragement and support.
It seems that there was no liaison between OP and school between the last school report and the parent-teacher meeting.
Joint responsibility for this to happen, but if I ever say something like that in a school report, I will always back it up with a parental discussion.
The ball is in the OP's court and she needs to ask the school for a plan of action. Otherwise, her DC may become sick and tired of being correct and being ignored (which I've seen happen numerous times).
Agreed about storm in a tea-cup. Education is a two-way thing, and it seems that both school and OP need uniting with the other.

I suggest the OP send her DC to post on here. There are plenty on here who do exactly what her DC is doing! (and yet we should have had it mastered years ago) ;-)

Last year I had a similar conversation about my (then) year 2 dd. As the teacher said "It's not always what she says, but how she says it". She also would refuse to admit she wasn't right, and, as the teacher said was usually right.

But equally well there are times where there is no wrong or right answer. I would take it from the teacher's remarks that it may well be things like eg. shall we do A or B first. In their own mind they can "know" that A is the obvious starting point. When the rest of the group say B first (possibly as a reaction to being told they must do A) then a refusal to admit that although she might have a very good reason to do A first, the other option is just as valid is when it is an issue.

In group work I would expect there to me many situations where there is no right/wrong way, but if you have a child who refuses to cooperate with a group if they don't do it her way it is a huge problem.

For my dd, the teacher and I both worked hard on getting her to listen to others, and how she presented things, and she is much better this year, and is happier round her peers too.

Bugger all that

This girl will end up running the country given the right encouragement. And probably doing a very good job.

"This girl will end up running the country given the right encouragement. And probably doing a very good job."

I imagine Margaret Thatcher was the kind of child who didn't work well in a group :o

I wonder if this teacher is as critical about boys dominating.

Don't crush your daughter's spirit.

Can't see anything wrong with the comment. She may be a very bright girl but it appears she needs to work on her social skills. There is nothing wrong with being right but she also needs to learn to get along with people or she'll be unpopular with her classmates. It's a skill that you need to have as an adult.

Margaret thatcher may have always thought she was right but she was also a consummate politician who brought people with her (not saying that she was right though)

"I wonder if this teacher is as critical about boys dominating"

Well, both my DSs have had similar comments so yes, I would imagine so. Not everything is sexist you know.