If you asked your 7 year old to take away 6 from 60 in their head......

[Pendulum]

Would you expect them to get the right answer??

I was doing 6 times tables on the way to school with DD. She was stuck on 9 x 6- so I said, well you know 10 x 6 is 60, so just take away 6. Count backwards if you like.

Long pause, then.....

"13". Worst thing is, it wasn't a blind guess- some process of deduction had been applied!

I am a bit suspicious of her school's maths teaching already (I am drilling her on tables because they don't seem to be teaching them this term), but would you say this is particularly poor?

Yez, my dd could do this.

That is so clever! Only just got back to this thread! Cannot wait for dd to come home so I can show her! I just phoned dh and he now thinks I am mad to be so excited about my 9 times table!

Ds1 could probably have done at aged 7, but DS2 prob not. He's NEARLY 7.

I asked my ds this am what is 60-6 an with hesitation an I think he used his fingers he said 54! I was shocked coz I thought no way he knows that!! He is year 2 and 6.5 years old. He doesn't know his times tables. He is doing times tables though now. :)

slinkydog Does your DD know her 11's? Even easier, and another one under her belt.

Re the comments about how children are taught column addition, subtraction etc., this tends not to be taught until children can fully understand the concept of the value of numbers and place value. Children need to be able to maths in their head. If they are taught too soon to do column maths then they tend to miss out the mental maths stage and then never go back to it.

Place Value is one of the biggest areas that children do not understand and without this they struggle with all stages of maths as they progress.

Re learning tables, children need to understand their tables and what the numbers mean and parents need to practice with them the whole time they are at school.

I learnt how the children are taught in school by using/observing the Whizz.com maths programme because it teaches concepts step by step throughout the curriculum. It has been invaluable to me to fully understand how maths is taught and my maths knowledge is very advanced now, yet throughout my whole life I had been crap at maths and mental calculations.

that's all very well, roadkill - but it needs to be adaptable. DS understood place value at 3 - no-one has ever had to explain a mathematical concept to him more than once (not the case with anything else, BTW) so the stupid "recipes" were just confusing and pointless.

"I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall that just smiles" made me laugh, so descriptive.

slinky

There is another way of doing the higher tables on your fingers here - once they've cracked below 5 they can use their fingers

I agree the multiplication might be more difficult, unless already learned by rote, but I thought simple subtraction was taught in Y1?

Thanks for the link Patty - my DS will love that site!

Jeez, I'm 32 and I struggle sometimes! Think would have got it right but might have taken a while.

Don't stress, numbers just aren't some people's thing :)

yes. I honestly would expect a 7 year old to be able to count backwards on fingers to work this out.

They need lots of number bond practice 10-6=4 therefore 60-6=54 and 80-6=74 and 30-6=24 etc
Try this game
Or games on here

When my dd was seven she couldn't have answered immediately and correctly, but she would have come up with a reasonable answer. (She'd have known it was a number in the 50s.) Since your dd came up with the answer of 13, it suggests to me that she is being pushed too hard at school to do rote computation.

She is not having the opportunity to step back and think about what numbers mean, develop a sense of how big 13 is compared to 60, or practice estimating. Either she doesn't yet grasp those basics - in which case it's too early for her to be memorising arithmetic facts - or she does grasp them but her common sense is getting drowned out by all the memorisation and the practice with computation is doing her more harm than good.

My ds' school don't appear to do times table at all in year 2. Which I am very surprised at.

He can do the question 60-6 by the 10-6 + 50.

I've tried teaching him times tables but I'm no teacher, and he looks at me with pure bewilderment.

They need their tables more than anything else. However he appears to know his number bonds which is good. Maybe the tables will come in year3.

DD2 transferred from a British state primary to an American school at the start of Yr 4 equivalent. She was expected to know all of her tables up to 12x, and spent all of the first term catching up. Her teacher was, frankly, horrified at her "only" knowing 5, 10, 2, 3, 4 and 6.

If there is only one thing that you do to help your DCs in Maths it is make sure that they know their tables with instant recall. There is only one way-by rote. I always tell DCs that I learnt mine at primary school and then you have them for life.

You do not have to wait for the school to 'get onto' them.

The school that my children go to do not focus on tables very much at all so many Year 5 and 6 children still do not know even their 3,4,5s and then the teachers wonder why they struggle with lot of maths activities. It seems so low on the teaching priorities but the teachers dont seem bothered by the lack of table knowledge. Sadly most of these teachers openly admit they are lousy at maths so don't realise the importance

Probably they are younger teachers and don't know their tables! I am older and we knew them forward, backward and inside out! I can be in the classroom and just do them on automatic pilot.
I would recommend this BBC grid-it is really for adult maths skills but works well with DCs. here

You would have to spend time on it yourself first because there are all sorts of options.

Yes exoticfruits, it is the younger teachers who struggle most.

there is no point learning your tables until you understand what multiplication is, the best way to help your child is to talk him or her through working them out themselves by repeated addition or subtraction from a multiple that they do now. For example if they understand place value they have the 10s and the 5s (5 is half of ten). If they know their doubles they will have their 2s. The 4s are just the doubles of the 2s, the 6x6 =(5x6) + 6 etc. Once they are able to do this for any multiple by themselves in their head you should then teach them their tables otherwise they will get confused in maths later on